Running hard-pipe to drop-in troffers

[samblv]

Is there anything wrong, or code issue, regarding running hard pipe connections to drop-in t-bar fixtures instead of flex? I've got a plan checker saying I should do this for a hospital I'm designing the electrical for.

 

[jusme123]

I have never seen light fixtures completely hard piped in a drop ceiling

 

[samblv]

I have never seen light fixtures completely hard piped in a drop ceiling

Me too. He's claiming the flex is subject to damage and I don't know what to say to that? What damages flex in a ceiling cavity? Someone in custody trying to escape before being transferred to a jail?

 

[don_resqcapt19]

I have seen it a few times...it makes for a very upset electrician when it is time to make some changes. In the jobs I saw a box was mounted on top of the fixtures with a chase nipple and the ballast wires pushed out into the box, then conduit was run from box to box.

 

[iwire]

If the fixtures are on the emergency system in patient care areas I don't think there is a choice.

See 517.30(C)(3)

 

[ActionDave]

I have never seen light fixtures completely hard piped in a drop ceiling

I have seen it on some old recessed can installs, but never trouffers.

 

[Fulthrotl]

If the fixtures are on the emergency system in patient care areas I don't think there is a choice.

See 517.30(C)(3)

went and looked at this, and it's pretty straightforward.

============================
(3) Listed flexible metal raceways and listed metal sheathed
cable assemblies (such as HCF Type AC cable and HCF MCAP
cable which do comply with 517.13(A) and (B) for patient care areas)
in any one of the following:

a. Where used in listed prefabricated medical headwalls
b. In listed office furnishings
c. Where fished into existing walls or ceilings, not otherwise accessible and not subject to physical damage
d. Where necessary for flexible connection to equipment
============================

otherwise, it's gotta be hard pipe according to what i read.

this is the part i'm curious about.....
i've worked in a number of hospitals, and i've seen an awful
lot of flex whips to light fixtures in patient care areas, and
flex in general.

when did this become part of the code, the hard pipe rule?

 

[iwire]

when did this become part of the code, the hard pipe rule?

I do not know, Roger may.

Here is the section cut and pasted in case the above was transcribed wrong.

517.30 Essential Electrical Systems for Hospitals.

(C) Wiring Requirements.

(3) Mechanical Protection of the Emergency System.
The wiring of the emergency systems in hospitals shall be
mechanically protected. Where installed as branch circuits
in patient care areas, the installation shall comply with the
requirements of 517.13(A) and (B). The following wiring
methods shall be permitted:

(1) Nonflexible metal raceways, Type MI cable, or Schedule
80 PVC conduit. Nonmetallic raceways shall not be
used for branch circuits that supply patient care areas.

(2) Where encased in not less than 50 mm (2 in.) of concrete,
Schedule 40 PVC conduit, flexible nonmetallic or jacketed
metallic raceways, or jacketed metallic cable assemblies
listed for installation in concrete. Nonmetallic raceways
shall not be used for branch circuits that supply
patient care areas.

(3) Listed flexible metal raceways and listed metal sheathed
cable assemblies in any of the following:

a. Where used in listed prefabricated medical headwalls

b. In listed office furnishings

c. Where fished into existing walls or ceilings, not otherwise
accessible and not subject to physical damage

d. Where necessary for flexible connection to equipment

 

[kwired]

I've seen many older installs with EMT run from troffer to troffer. Big PITA if trying to make any changes compared to flex whips.

I will also say usually there was no support on the raceway and because of that it was also common to find broken fittings, bent tubing, etc.

 

[roger]

when did this become part of the code, the hard pipe rule?

The "Nonflexible" wording came about in the "96" cycle, before that it was just worded "metalic raceways".

The inspectors I have dealt with have always allowed a fixture whip to be a flexible metalic connection in compliance with 250.118. This is where some common sense needs to be applied

Roger

 

[buzzbar]

d. Where necessary for flexible connection to equipment

I would argue that it IS necessary to have a flexible connection to a troffer in a suspended ceiling. If so, flex would be allowed. Any inspectors have any thoughts on this?

 

[roger]

I would argue that it IS necessary to have a flexible connection to a troffer in a suspended ceiling.

Why? Troffers are not intended to be easily removable any more than a fixture mounted to a hard ceiling, they are required to be securely fastend to the grid system.

Roger

 

[buzzbar]

Why? Troffers are not intended to be easily removable any more than a fixture mounted to a hard ceiling, they are required to be securely fastend to the grid system.

Roger

Well, I didn't say that I would win the argument! But, in order to perform maintenance on the light fixture, such as removing the light, I think it would be necessary to have a flexible connection. Otherwise, you have to disassemble the whole conduit assembly.

 

[sparkyrick]

Well, I didn't say that I would win the argument! But, in order to perform maintenance on the light fixture, such as removing the light, I think it would be necessary to have a flexible connection. Otherwise, you have to disassemble the whole conduit assembly.

Years ago, we did a grocery store with hundreds if parabolics in long continuous rows. Rather than taking apart every fixture to install chase nipples to pull wires through the lights, it was much easier to pipe on top of the lights with a 44" piece of EMT and 4X4 box.