Safety gloves working hot

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This is really a hot subject. The only comment I have is for you to listen to what everyone is saying. The comment I made earlier is factual.
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dcspector said:
Marc,

What one of those guys am I?........Yes the bus and the tap box lugs. Aluminum creeps/ loosens up over the years and when I inspect existing equipment....It is part of my job. I check one or two bolts and or lugs and make out a report. I use a torque wrench.........:)roll: ???? what was that all about) ?
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It is impossible to check torque on existing equipment, since the cold flow is already accounted for in the initial torque spec when originally installed. The torque will be less in the future, and rightfully so. Retorqueing existing terminations to the initial torque values will start to pinch off the conductor.
 
iwire said:
Did you miss that it is an OSHA violation? It surprises me a hospital is not already acutely aware of the OSHA standards.

It's called scheduling a shut down. My experience is that more often then not you can schedule a shutdown when you do not give the penny counters any option. Yes, this means things might have to wait.

You show them the rules.

The companies I have worked for have a paper form that both explains the rules and requires signatures from the customer saying it is their decision and they will be liable for the hot work.

Two months ago we pulled an 800 amp feeder, it just got connected recently as that was the first shutdown possible.

Nothing will change until we make it change.
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I do not believe this a violation of Osha as you quoted:

iwire said:
unless the employer can demonstrate that deenergizing introduces additional or increased hazards or is infeasible due to equipment design or operational limitations
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iwire said:
Note 1: Examples of increased or additional hazards include interruption of life support equipment, deactivation of emergency alarm systems, shutdown of hazardous location ventilation equipment, or removal of illumination for an area.

Note 2:Examples of work that may be performed on or near energized circuit parts because ofinfeasibility due to equipment design or operational limitations include testing of electric circuits that can only be performed with the circuit energized and work on circuits that form an integral part of a continuous industrial process in a chemical plant that would otherwise need to be completely shut down in order to permit work on one circuit or piece of equipment.
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Dont get me wrong I understand your point i dont normally work hot and when i do i use the gloves. Just on certain occassions when we are adding a single pole 20 amp breaker for just on circuit, its quick and easy and safe with the proper safety equipment to install this breaker.

Yes you are right, it wont change unless we in the industry make it change.
 
iwire said:
I personally have only once had a customer sign it all others decide a shutdown was in their best interest.

A Hospital and the switchgear we had to go into controlled the OR ventilation.

IMO it was still an OSHA violation.
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OR ventilation for the uniformed? That being me.

Operating room?
 
mdshunk said:
It is impossible to check torque on existing equipment, since the cold flow is already accounted for in the initial torque spec when originally installed. The torque will be less in the future, and rightfully so. Retorqueing existing terminations to the initial torque values will start to pinch off the conductor.
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Do you have anything to say about the topic at hand?
 
brother said:
I do not believe this a violation of Osha as you quoted:
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If someone gets injured or killed it will not be seen that way.

But, forget OSHA, forget $.

Think of yourself, is time in a burn ward worth it to you?

Not one burned electrician thought he would be burned that day.
 
mdshunk said:
It is impossible to check torque on existing equipment, since the cold flow is already accounted for in the initial torque spec when originally installed. The torque will be less in the future, and rightfully so. Retorqueing existing terminations to the initial torque values will start to pinch off the conductor.
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Marc, we got off on the wrong foot and you are correct. However, The EC and building engineer have a chart. I will post this chart on my next existing inspection. I realize one cannot torque to original specs......can you imaginine snapping off a lug? OMG!
 
iwire said:
.

IMO it was still an OSHA violation.
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Osha says we "shall" not work on energized equipment yet NFPA 70E makes provisions to do so under certain circumstances i.e Live Work Permit such as Bob mentioned earlier.

If you were to do work on live equipment and something did happen would OSHA recognize the signed document in citing violation or would the contractor be fined as well as the building owner?

I work in a service dept and we are always in live panels for one thing or another but we have Arc flash gear on every van and I make sure I put it on every time I open a panel up or any other energized equipent.


Joe
 
frizbeedog said:
OR ventilation for the uniformed? That being me.

Operating room?
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Yes operating room.

They had actually scheduled the OR to be closed for planed procedures while we did our work, but they wanted the power to be on in case an emergency came up.
 
iwire said:
If someone gets injured or killed it will not be seen that way.

But, forget OSHA, forget $.

Think of yourself, is time in a burn ward worth it to you?

Not one burned electrician thought he would be burned that day.
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I wear safety gear, at least some. My gloves, safety glasses, long sleeves etc.. I do think of myself in this situation, besides here recently we had a IBEW electrician brother get 3rd degree burns on his arms and hands and rushed to hospital. I do not believe he was wearing long sleeves or had safety gloves on.

And like i said, osha does not forbid ALL electrical HOT work, just most of it. I would like to see that form you got for getting the custormer to sign. I have never seen it.
 
mdshunk said:
Yeah, but it will be censored, so I substituted something else that I wanted to talk about.
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Hey Marc,

What is the topic uncensored send me a PM? I did agree to going back to original torque specs on gear and I have snapped off a lug years ago. like I said the EC's and engineers have a list per wire size in gear that I follow. I have even torqued up to original specs and have had no problem. Ya outta come down to DC and ride with me for a day.
 
brother said:
I wonder what you have to say about the safety gloves and working hot?? what is your practice "MEGGER MAN" marc??
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Marc is empowered to ignore OSHA. :grin:

As the owner he is not really an employee he is the employer.

I guess that really depends on how his business is set up but that is beyond what I know.


Now I really wonder how he expects his employees to work.
 
iwire said:
Now I really wonder how he expects his employees to work.
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Git R Done and damn the outcome......Marc, we're waiting.

I don't want this to be a Marc bashing session. For the record. :smile:
 
iwire said:
Marc is empowered to ignore OSHA. :grin:

As the owner he is not really an employee he is the employer.

I guess that really depends on how his business is set up but that is beyond what I know.


Now I really wonder how he expects his employees to work.
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I have to disagree, OSHA many of times require the employer to 'train' the employees concerning safety.
 
brother said:
I have to disagree, OSHA many of times require the employer to 'train' the employees concerning safety.
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That is true, the employer is required to train the employee. :smile:

But the rules in 1910.333(a)(1) apply only to the employee(s).
 
brother said:
Still waiting to hear from "MEGGER MAN' marc.
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There would be no profit in my comments on the matter of working hot and hot work gloves, therefore I will uncharacteristically bite my tongue.
 
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