Same circuit fed twice

[Jhr]

Re: Same circuit fed twice

Joe, look at my graphic and think about it. Where do you interpret anything to mean a set of wires and breakers create a load, the zigzag gold line represents a resistor, i.e. a LOAD.

You too :roll: Why in the world would you put a 40 amp load on this 20amp rated circuit, I guess its the zigzag man that would do such a thing

They had replaced 15 & 20 Amp. fuses with 30's but at first I couldn't figure out why even the 30's hadn't blown

Growler that has nothing to do with the circuit been double fed, the reason for the melted wires would be the oversized fuses, this would allow for the 15 or 20 amp circuit to carry a higher load for an extended period of time, what suffers here is the wiring, not to mention the fire hazard this creates .

[ February 12, 2006, 07:07 PM: Message edited by: Jhr ]

 

[roger]

Re: Same circuit fed twice

Joe, what is it that is getting you so upset?

I think 2_BEARS will fix his problem, so leave that behind and move on to trying to understand this circuit and how it can supply a load at twice one side of it's OCP.

A version of this ring circuit has been used in the UK as a standard practice, the difference was they used a smaller conductor (16 amp) and fed it with a larger breaker (32 amps) in a ring/loop with spurs.

Roger

 

[roger]

Re: Same circuit fed twice

Originally posted by Jhr:

Joe, look at my graphic and think about it. Where do you interpret anything to mean a set of wires and breakers create a load, the zigzag gold line represents a resistor, i.e. a LOAD.

You too :roll: Why in the world would you put a 40 amp load on this 20amp rated circuit, I guess its the zigzag man that would do such a thing

Are you drinking?

Roger

 

[iwire]

Re: Same circuit fed twice

Originally posted by Jhr:
Why in the world would you put a 40 amp load on this 20amp rated circuit,

Joe look at Roger,s drawing and replace the single load of 40 amps and imagine it as a number of lighting and receptacle outlets.

Now plug in a 10 amp load, a couple of 5 amp loads, a 15 amp hair dryer and a few lighting fixtures.

This would be well above 20 amps and the breakers would be holding it fine.

This is what can happen when wiring mistkes are made, I have found a number of 'double fed' circuits in commecial buildings.

A real safety issue as people will still plug in 16 AWG cords that now have 40 amps of OCP.

 

[iwire]

Re: Same circuit fed twice

Originally posted by Jhr:
Growler that has nothing to do with the circuit been double fed, the reason for the melted wires would be the oversized fuses, this would allow for the 15 or 20 amp circuit to carry a higher load for an extended period of time, what suffers here is the wiring, not to mention the fire hazard this creates .

Double feeding a circuit has exactly the same result as over sized fuses.

A circuit fed with two 15 amp fuses from the same phase has the same ampacity as a circuit fed with one 30 amp fuse.

Forget about what happens with a 2 pole breaker, with a 2 pole breaker you are on opposite phases.

[ February 12, 2006, 07:13 PM: Message edited by: iwire ]

 

[Jhr]

Re: Same circuit fed twice

Are you drinking?

Roger, as a matter of fact I am slamming down some ICE COLD COORS LIGHT as we speak, er uh type And if I could I would gladly send you and Iwire one or two via this forum. But to keep things simple Ok yall are right

Joe, what is it that is getting you so upset?

Upset? Does this look like the face of a man that is upset.

[ February 12, 2006, 07:24 PM: Message edited by: Jhr ]

 

[iwire]

Re: Same circuit fed twice

Originally posted by Jhr:
if I could I would gladly send you and Iwire one or two via this forum.

Can you make it Tequila?

 

[Jhr]

Re: Same circuit fed twice

A version of this ring circuit has been used in the UK as a standard practice, the difference was they used a smaller conductor (16 amp) and fed it with a larger breaker (32 amps) in a ring/loop with spurs.

Ah, those wild and crazy Britts,Austin Powers, YOUR THE MAN! Hey Roger, did the ring/loop also come with a ten gallon hat, double silver plated six shooters, a horse named trigger, and a hearty HI O SILVER AWAY. Una mas tequila for my amigo Iwire! .

[ February 12, 2006, 07:41 PM: Message edited by: Jhr ]

 

[roger]

Re: Same circuit fed twice

I'll have a shot of Tequila too.

Roger

 

[Minuteman]

Re: Same circuit fed twice

Hey 2Bears, let us know what you find. Personally, I'm in the "clip jumper" camp. BTW
Glad to hear that cooler heads prevailed.

 

[Minuteman]

Re: Same circuit fed twice

BTW, Am I the only guy that runs 12/3 as home runs any more? Not just for the 2 or more kitchen SABC, but do y'all use a 3 conductor NM for your HR's?

 

[monkey]

Re: Same circuit fed twice

"Hey 2Bears, let us know what you find. Personally, I'm in the "clip jumper" camp. BTW
Glad to hear that cooler heads prevailed."

he already found it look back 2 pages. Hey 2 Bears in regards to your question about the locater for buried boxes, I had a house with a bunch of them. My $200 circuit locater was no help, then one of the carpenters came along with a $35 Zircon studfinder that locates electric, one of the new ones, he found every single one. Some walls had been firred out 1-1/2 inches with the old recep or switch never even removed from the original wall, still plated and all. the Zircon found them all, very accurately. Of course, they have to be hot. I tried my Zircon which is a few years old, it wouldn't do it. The new ones have a light that lights up when it finds the magnetic field.

 

[Minuteman]

Re: Same circuit fed twice

:roll: DOH!!!

 

[Jhr]

Re: Same circuit fed twice

I'm in the "clip jumper" camp. BTW

What is a "clip jumper", and why are U in camp? What do the letters "BTW" mean, IWLTK .

[ February 13, 2006, 12:56 PM: Message edited by: Jhr ]

 

[al hildenbrand]

Re: Same circuit fed twice

Originally posted by LarryFine:
that's not the same as proportion of the total series resistance.

Thanks Larry,

Interesting turn of phrase. I never quite saw it like that before.

 

[LarryFine]

Re: Same circuit fed twice

You're welcome. My best friend is an EE, and we have some interesting discussions on theory. He often says that I express ideas in a most unique way, yet I still make sense somehow.

I have an additional suggestion for dealing with a double-fed circuit: join the two hots in the panel, and pigtail them onto a single breaker. No more neutral overloading or accidentally leaving the circuit hot.