SEC Fed Through Panel
- Thread starter euclid43
- Start date
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shepelec
Senior Member
- Location
- Palmer, MA
Hmm I've had them stipulate where the socket must go but never the panel.:roll:
I doubt they will want you running the service cables throught the panel besides, you would have conductors in the panel that would not be deenergized by the main.
I doubt they will want you running the service cables throught the panel besides, you would have conductors in the panel that would not be deenergized by the main.
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Not to mention, unmetered. It's an NEC no-no, too.
They would not be unmetered.
The utility company wants lever bi-pass, but the manufactures have not shipped enough. Consequently, I have to install the mast into the panel, and have the meter on the left side. If i run it into the meter, the edge of the building becomes an issue. Everything has to be installed to the left of the edge of building. Like I said, the Util. Co. wants the meter on the left of panel.
Surely there has been cases of this install.
The utility company wants lever bi-pass, but the manufactures have not shipped enough. Consequently, I have to install the mast into the panel, and have the meter on the left side. If i run it into the meter, the edge of the building becomes an issue. Everything has to be installed to the left of the edge of building. Like I said, the Util. Co. wants the meter on the left of panel.
Surely there has been cases of this install.
can you post a picture of this it would help.
masterinbama
Senior Member
- Location
- Huntsville Alabama
Bend an offset in the service mast.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Can either of you point to an NEC section that prohibits either condition?
I think it is a poor design and I would try to avoid it but it is not prohibited by the NEC.
shepelec
Senior Member
- Location
- Palmer, MA
I would say 230.7, as the panel would be a raceway at that point, and with a little stretch 230.43 would disallow it.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
The panel is not a raceway and if that was the case then you could not put service cables in with branch circuits like we do with a panel.
I would install the meter to the left with a short nipple to panel 1 and then come from the bottom of the meter with 2 elbows to panel 2.
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Can a small R-3 trough be installed above the panel and meter, riser hit the trough and flex over into the top of meter, then out the bottom back to the panel?.
Around here our utility don't want access to any un metered service conductors, so running through a panel would not be allowed, but a seal able trough above which they can put a seal on it can be ok. very common for apartment buildings.
If the service entrance conductors come into the panel from the riser pipe they will be unmetered? anyone who wanted to take the chance could strip the insulation and easily tap to these unmetered conductors, as they would be out of the control of the utility, as this panel would not be seal able.
Around here our utility don't want access to any un metered service conductors, so running through a panel would not be allowed, but a seal able trough above which they can put a seal on it can be ok. very common for apartment buildings.
If the service entrance conductors come into the panel from the riser pipe they will be unmetered? anyone who wanted to take the chance could strip the insulation and easily tap to these unmetered conductors, as they would be out of the control of the utility, as this panel would not be seal able.
shepelec
Senior Member
- Location
- Palmer, MA
Raceway. An enclosed channel of metal or nonmetallic
materials designed expressly for holding wires, cables, or
busbars, with additional functions as permitted in this
Code. Raceways include, but are not limited to......
312.8 Enclosures for Switches or Overcurrent Devices.
Enclosures for switches or overcurrent devices shall not be
used as junction boxes, auxiliary gutters, or raceways for conductors
230.7 Other Conductors in Raceway or Cable. Conductors
other than service conductors shall not be installed in
the same service raceway or service cable.
In this case I think a panel would be considered a race way.
But this is my lowly interpretation
materials designed expressly for holding wires, cables, or
busbars, with additional functions as permitted in this
Code. Raceways include, but are not limited to......
312.8 Enclosures for Switches or Overcurrent Devices.
Enclosures for switches or overcurrent devices shall not be
used as junction boxes, auxiliary gutters, or raceways for conductors
230.7 Other Conductors in Raceway or Cable. Conductors
other than service conductors shall not be installed in
the same service raceway or service cable.
In this case I think a panel would be considered a race way.
But this is my lowly interpretation
shepelec
Senior Member
- Location
- Palmer, MA
Normally we do not run SEC's through the main panel though.
- Location
- Massachusetts
I agree, we do not normally do that even though the NEC does allow it.
I am not surprised that some power companies have a problem with it.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
Well then every junction box or enclosure is pretty much a raceway by your interpretation. Tell me if a panel is a raceway then how could you put branch circuit wiring in the same panel as the se conductors?
Panelboard is also defined in definitions but they do not call it a raceway.
jxofaltrds
Inspector Mike®
- Location
- Mike P. Columbus Ohio
- Occupation
- ESI, PI, RBO
I would start with 230.7 but others say it is not a service raceway.
Since the panel is not a raceway how do you comply with 230.32? 230.32 takes you to 300.5(D).
Does 300.5 make the panel an enclosure? Yes. So we are OK with 300.5.
Now back to 230.32. 230.42 does not apply since we said it is not a raceway.
All that is left is 230.6. It does not meet 230.6 so the conductors must be considered inside.
So 230.70(A)(1) applies.
You can not run unfused conductors passed the disconnect. So I say no to this installation.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
Is this something you are making up cause 230.70(A)(1) says nothing about this. It also doesn't apply outside.
shepelec
Senior Member
- Location
- Palmer, MA
I would say, with the SEC running through, the panel would have to be considered a race way. After all Art 100 definitions allow for other possible raceways and 312.8 allows it to be used as a "raceway".
Now we both know the NEC does not say specifically this is not permitted but I think most inspectors would shoot this down, using the same articles. I think we all agree it is a lousy install at best.
It would be interesting to see an official interpretation from the CMP.
Last edited:
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
How does that section apply to this installation?
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Service Manager
If this panel is a raceway, in violation of 230.7, then passing through the meter first will not change that. A meter does not provide disconnection, or overcurrent protection, it is not a service disconnect.
Service conductors come into a meter, and the conductors that exit the load side are also service conductors. Throwing a cash register anywhere does not change the nature of the conductors.
If this service is in violation of 230.7, then IMO there is not a service on the planet that complies. By necessity, service conductors must enter the panel to be disconnected and protected.
Of course, I could not be convinced otherwise four years ago either.
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