Securing Type NM Cable
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jim k
Member
- Location
- Northwestern Oregon
Re: Securing Type NM Cable
Seriously, how do you view this installation in light of the requirements of 334.15? The cables don't closely follow the surface of the building and, at least in my area, would be considered to be subject to physical damage.
Wouldn't it have been easier and cheaper to run this installation in conduit?
- Jim K
Edited to remove image.
[ October 27, 2005, 03:19 PM: Message edited by: jim k ]
Hmm. Clearly the work of an amateur. I see at least two crooked staples and the panels haven't been properly waxed and buffed.
Seriously, how do you view this installation in light of the requirements of 334.15? The cables don't closely follow the surface of the building and, at least in my area, would be considered to be subject to physical damage.
Wouldn't it have been easier and cheaper to run this installation in conduit?
- Jim K
Edited to remove image.
[ October 27, 2005, 03:19 PM: Message edited by: jim k ]
Re: Securing Type NM Cable
Jim, I don't understand, as far as what I'm looking at, they are following the surface of the building as required in 334.15(A)
If your AHJ considers this to be subject to physical damage, then you would have to live with it.
As far as conduit being easier and cheaper, maybe, but damn this looks good.
Roger
Jim, I don't understand, as far as what I'm looking at, they are following the surface of the building as required in 334.15(A)
If your AHJ considers this to be subject to physical damage, then you would have to live with it.
As far as conduit being easier and cheaper, maybe, but damn this looks good.
Roger
jim k
Member
- Location
- Northwestern Oregon
Re: Securing Type NM Cable
It looks fabulous.
It's art.
I'm moved to tears. (Mostly from thinking about how much it must have cost.)
- Jim K
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[ October 27, 2005, 08:57 PM: Message edited by: jim k ]
Not quite. Look carefully at the horizontal row of 20+ cables that crosses above the panels. It's stapled to a series of 2x4 blocks mounted on the wall. I wouldn't want to mess with this artist's vision, but if I'd had the opportunity for input, I'd have suggested a plywood backer between the 2x4 blocks and the cables.
Well, sure.If your AHJ considers this to be subject to physical damage, then you would have to live with it.
As far as conduit being easier and cheaper, maybe, but damn this looks good.
Roger
It looks fabulous.
It's art.
I'm moved to tears. (Mostly from thinking about how much it must have cost.)
- Jim K
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[ October 27, 2005, 08:57 PM: Message edited by: jim k ]
Re: Securing Type NM Cable
Jim, being that you are a HI, I would think you would be impressed.
Are you sure you aren't jealous?
BTW, I don't do residential wiring so don't think it means anything to me besides my respect for the craftmanship and quality of this installation.
Don't cry over the money spent, think of the overall picture as far as the cost of this house, (yes it is a house) the electrical installation would only be a fraction of the cost.
What would you write up in an inspection report?
Roger
[ October 27, 2005, 09:49 PM: Message edited by: roger ]
Jim, being that you are a HI, I would think you would be impressed.
Are you sure you aren't jealous?
BTW, I don't do residential wiring so don't think it means anything to me besides my respect for the craftmanship and quality of this installation.
Don't cry over the money spent, think of the overall picture as far as the cost of this house, (yes it is a house) the electrical installation would only be a fraction of the cost.
What would you write up in an inspection report?
Roger
[ October 27, 2005, 09:49 PM: Message edited by: roger ]
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Re: Securing Type NM Cable
I think that is against the rules here.
allenwayne
Senior Member
Re: Securing Type NM Cable
Just cover it with drywall.The almighty drywall .Is that SER below the double joists?In the middle 3 panels I can`t see the NM secured as it enters the panels.Does look pretty but unless the job was T & M sombody lost their hind quarters.
Just cover it with drywall.The almighty drywall .Is that SER below the double joists?In the middle 3 panels I can`t see the NM secured as it enters the panels.Does look pretty but unless the job was T & M sombody lost their hind quarters.
Re: Securing Type NM Cable
i don't see how they could rock it over the panels, or below ser (?).
I think we should promote this for job security for now and future electricians.
Looks too expensive for me. I think it's sort of nice looking for exposed romex, but pipe looks more professional overall
paul
i don't see how they could rock it over the panels, or below ser (?).
I think we should promote this for job security for now and future electricians.
Looks too expensive for me. I think it's sort of nice looking for exposed romex, but pipe looks more professional overall
paul
allenwayne
Senior Member
Re: Securing Type NM Cable
Paul I agree it does look pretty ,but pretty expensive too.As far as rocking over it I am sure some 2 x 2 metal stud frames and some creative drywalling would cover it nicely.Some conduit would have done the same thing and less time.This has to be a commercial guys work have never seen rolling racks of NM like that.Nice job,but what a waste of time.
Paul I agree it does look pretty ,but pretty expensive too.As far as rocking over it I am sure some 2 x 2 metal stud frames and some creative drywalling would cover it nicely.Some conduit would have done the same thing and less time.This has to be a commercial guys work have never seen rolling racks of NM like that.Nice job,but what a waste of time.
jim k
Member
- Location
- Northwestern Oregon
Re: Securing Type NM Cable
- Jim K
I've got to admit, it's very satisfying to look at. My hunch is that the person who did this enjoyed it and got real personal satisfaction from it. But good conduit is beautiful too. And more durable.Originally posted by roger:
Jim, being that you are a HI, I would think you would be impressed.
Are you sure you aren't jealous?
I like the way it looks, really. But I'm not sure that untwisting romex and measuring its spacing with a micrometer equates to genuine quality and craftsmanship. I'd be more impressed to see that all of those relay circuits actually work properly.
I hear you. People who can afford houses like this think about money differently that I do.
"At the east basement wall, many cables are held out from the wall by blocks of wood. This makes the cables subject to physical damage. Don't hang things from or store things behind these cables. Doing so could damage them. Have your electrician provide protection against physical damage at this location. Reference: 2005 NEC, Section 334.15."
- Jim K
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Securing Type NM Cable
This is a very neat looking job.However here it would get red tag.The wires here above that panel would need boxed in.Usual way i see is attach
2 x 4 to sides of panel then it gets drywall.Lot faster too.But for looks he gets 5 stars
This is a very neat looking job.However here it would get red tag.The wires here above that panel would need boxed in.Usual way i see is attach
2 x 4 to sides of panel then it gets drywall.Lot faster too.But for looks he gets 5 stars
allenwayne
Senior Member
Re: Securing Type NM Cable
Jim the comment of people that can afford a home like that brings this one particular fellow to mind.
In an exclusive gated community in Appolo beach called Andalusia this fellow was acting as owner builder in a 8,500 sq ft home for himself and his wife. A home that size and 3 bedrooms 2 1/2 baths .Moral of the story he should have paid the change order,his arrogant,cheap attitude cost him 5 times the change order fee.
The old saying money begets money is not always true.In this case the greed of money begot a very large seperation of this fellow from some of his beloved money.
Jim the comment of people that can afford a home like that brings this one particular fellow to mind.
In an exclusive gated community in Appolo beach called Andalusia this fellow was acting as owner builder in a 8,500 sq ft home for himself and his wife. A home that size and 3 bedrooms 2 1/2 baths
.Moral of the story he should have paid the change order,his arrogant,cheap attitude cost him 5 times the change order fee.The old saying money begets money is not always true.In this case the greed of money begot a very large seperation of this fellow from some of his beloved money.
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Securing Type NM Cable
What gets me is they think we wont even notice there changes.Had a friend that was a commercial electrician and he thought nothing of going on a saturday and changing some things on the house he was having built.I told him that what he did was illegal and the EC could refuse to even trim the house.There were some words over it and i am sure they charged him some.Not saying he violated any codes but there can only be one permit and master and when i see others add to my job i cut there wires out of my box and charge them for my time.If they dont like that then we can go visit the building department.
What gets me is they think we wont even notice there changes.Had a friend that was a commercial electrician and he thought nothing of going on a saturday and changing some things on the house he was having built.I told him that what he did was illegal and the EC could refuse to even trim the house.There were some words over it and i am sure they charged him some.Not saying he violated any codes but there can only be one permit and master and when i see others add to my job i cut there wires out of my box and charge them for my time.If they dont like that then we can go visit the building department.
Re: Securing Type NM Cable
i agree about people touching/altering another contractor's work. With some trades small alterations are not a big deal, but fire and electrical shock hazards make electrical work different. Some people seem cavalier about it, but the warranty trip sounds like an idea i would have done if still active.
kudos for doing it
paul
i agree about people touching/altering another contractor's work. With some trades small alterations are not a big deal, but fire and electrical shock hazards make electrical work different. Some people seem cavalier about it, but the warranty trip sounds like an idea i would have done if still active.
kudos for doing it
paul
Re: Securing Type NM Cable
, leave it to Roger and he will amaze you! I belive Roger discoverd, what the 8th or 9th wonder of the world But I would say NEC 2005 334.15(B) would make this a code violation, unless said 8th or 9th wonder of the world is coverd with sheetrock, OH THE SHAME, MY GOD THIS IS TRUE ART AT ITS FINEST, GIVE ROGER A PULITZER FOR THIS ONE!
[ October 28, 2005, 09:24 PM: Message edited by: Jhr ]
Man Roger that is way
, leave it to Roger and he will amaze you! I belive Roger discoverd, what the 8th or 9th wonder of the world But I would say NEC 2005 334.15(B) would make this a code violation, unless said 8th or 9th wonder of the world is coverd with sheetrock, OH THE SHAME, MY GOD THIS IS TRUE ART AT ITS FINEST, GIVE ROGER A PULITZER FOR THIS ONE![ October 28, 2005, 09:24 PM: Message edited by: Jhr ]
allenwayne
Senior Member
Re: Securing Type NM Cable
I saw on a final last year the Inspector tagged the job stating what is all this stuff that was installed after I inspected the rough in.Tear it out or strip the drywall throughout the house.The house was being bought by a pool electrician that thought it was ok to add #14 to #12 circuits.Run 1 in fmc to a 4 11/16 that was mounted on the roof sheathing and there was 2 coils of #12 nm at the access in plain view.Oh the best was closets 14 in deep and stubs for flourescents above the header but the kicker was the 1 gang p rings with no box to install the switches...........
I saw on a final last year the Inspector tagged the job stating what is all this stuff that was installed after I inspected the rough in.Tear it out or strip the drywall throughout the house.The house was being bought by a pool electrician that thought it was ok to add #14 to #12 circuits.Run 1 in fmc to a 4 11/16 that was mounted on the roof sheathing and there was 2 coils of #12 nm at the access in plain view.Oh the best was closets 14 in deep and stubs for flourescents above the header but the kicker was the 1 gang p rings with no box to install the switches...........
pierre
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Re: Securing Type NM Cable
As an inspector, I am curious what the "PHYSICAL DAMAGE" is that the NM cable over the panels is subject to???????
An if there is some kind of pending physical damage, what about the overcurrent devices in the panels?????
240.24(C) Not Exposed to physical damage.
So, if the NM cable is exposed to physical damage, then I guess we should expect them to sheet rock around the panels as well
As an inspector, I am curious what the "PHYSICAL DAMAGE" is that the NM cable over the panels is subject to???????
An if there is some kind of pending physical damage, what about the overcurrent devices in the panels?????
240.24(C) Not Exposed to physical damage.
So, if the NM cable is exposed to physical damage, then I guess we should expect them to sheet rock around the panels as well
allenwayne
Senior Member
Re: Securing Type NM Cable
Pierre the job is fantastic,Looks A #1 + but it is a waste of time if covered.Now if it was ok to do due to pride in the job then it did that.The point of now there is less pride is noted and yes it is a sad one but,Bottom line usually takes over somewhere.After all $$ makes the world go round and us to our next job.
Pierre the job is fantastic,Looks A #1 + but it is a waste of time if covered.Now if it was ok to do due to pride in the job then it did that.The point of now there is less pride is noted and yes it is a sad one but,Bottom line usually takes over somewhere.After all $$ makes the world go round and us to our next job.
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