K_Buz
Member
- Location
- Southeastern Wisconsin
Either run UF out or conduit to the box with a raintite connector. As far as I know, that is the only legal way to do it now.
Settle Our Dispute
- Thread starter K_Buz
- Start date
- Status
have you ever cut pressure treated ... its moist inside quick rust quick fail
besides it says so on the box they come in ... something to the affect ... Do not use on pressure treated lumber
(would have replied sooner but ... it goes as it goes)
- Location
- Simi Valley, CA
Inspector: "I don't think I like your attitude son. Lets just open all the boxes and get out that torque screwdriver so I can check the breakers and receptacles. Then we'll go grab a copy of the code book and see what we can find for you. I could be wrong, but I've got the time today to sit here and see if I am."
mivey
Senior Member
Cold dishes are hard to swallow but bring much satisfaction to the chef.
- Location
- Simi Valley, CA
It's amazing, the "Electrical Box Mounting Screws?" in the picture below look like just like drywall screws.
Roger
Look like and are, are two different things. Well from all I can find, it says to never use drywall screws in treated lumber as they will corrode and used externaly they will rust.
- Location
- Simi Valley, CA
Oh I've eaten crow before, not to bad with a little wine sauce and the proper seasoning.:roll:
renosteinke
Senior Member
- Location
- NE Arkansas
Do you realize that Columbus discovered America, using ships that had absolutely no third-party listings and crewmen completely without and certifications, degrees, or licenses?
Just what is a 'drywall screw?' Like that Supreme Court justice said in regards to pornography, "we can't define it, but we know it when we see it!"
The point I'm making is that a 'drywall screw' is whatever the manufacturer says it is. There's no industry, or regulatory. definition regarding length, diameter, thread design, point, or head. Even the material and its' heat treating, strength, and corrosion treatment is undefined. All we have is a general 'market' definition, where the buyer gets to choose what he likes.
Maybe that's why you can find cheap, brittle 'drywall screws,' as well as some rather pricey branded versions.
"Free markets" are based on the assumption that the customer is in the best position to make these decisions. Left to operate, free markets work every time. I know, this seems contrary to the 'logic' that leads you down the path of inspections, certifications, licensing, etc., .... but the record shows we're better off that way.
Some bemoan the 'misuse' of the drywall screw, claiming such screws are being used like a new 'duct tape.' Maybe so .... but then, it seems you are not allowed to use duct tape to tape ducts, either. Maybe it's also wrong to use drywall screws for hanging drywall?
I've seen boxes mounted with staples, Teks screws, nails, all manner of specialty fasteners, and even tie wire. Somone using drywall screws into wood? I'll tell you what .... why don't you try that. Then, kick the box- hard. Climb atop the box. All I ask is that you do exactly the same thing to a plastic box with attached nails. Then let us know which fares better.
There are times when it makes sense to object- such as when a drywall screw is used in place of a machine screw into a threaded hole in sheet metal. Then there's the matter of the hole being the wrong size and the threads not matching, as well as (perhaps) that sharp point entering the wiring compartment. But a drywall screw going into wood? That's what it's made to do!
Regarding pressure treated wood .... thanks to new governemnt rules, the latest form of pressure treatement is supposedly more 'earth friendly' ... but is also much more corrosive. It's as if they replaced relatively benign arsenic with battery acid. Even ordinary deck screws are inappropriate for a pressure-treated deck. Ordinary plated screws aren't enough. That's a side issue, and not specific to drywall screws at all.
Just what is a 'drywall screw?' Like that Supreme Court justice said in regards to pornography, "we can't define it, but we know it when we see it!"
The point I'm making is that a 'drywall screw' is whatever the manufacturer says it is. There's no industry, or regulatory. definition regarding length, diameter, thread design, point, or head. Even the material and its' heat treating, strength, and corrosion treatment is undefined. All we have is a general 'market' definition, where the buyer gets to choose what he likes.
Maybe that's why you can find cheap, brittle 'drywall screws,' as well as some rather pricey branded versions.
"Free markets" are based on the assumption that the customer is in the best position to make these decisions. Left to operate, free markets work every time. I know, this seems contrary to the 'logic' that leads you down the path of inspections, certifications, licensing, etc., .... but the record shows we're better off that way.
Some bemoan the 'misuse' of the drywall screw, claiming such screws are being used like a new 'duct tape.' Maybe so .... but then, it seems you are not allowed to use duct tape to tape ducts, either. Maybe it's also wrong to use drywall screws for hanging drywall?
I've seen boxes mounted with staples, Teks screws, nails, all manner of specialty fasteners, and even tie wire. Somone using drywall screws into wood? I'll tell you what .... why don't you try that. Then, kick the box- hard. Climb atop the box. All I ask is that you do exactly the same thing to a plastic box with attached nails. Then let us know which fares better.
There are times when it makes sense to object- such as when a drywall screw is used in place of a machine screw into a threaded hole in sheet metal. Then there's the matter of the hole being the wrong size and the threads not matching, as well as (perhaps) that sharp point entering the wiring compartment. But a drywall screw going into wood? That's what it's made to do!
Regarding pressure treated wood .... thanks to new governemnt rules, the latest form of pressure treatement is supposedly more 'earth friendly' ... but is also much more corrosive. It's as if they replaced relatively benign arsenic with battery acid. Even ordinary deck screws are inappropriate for a pressure-treated deck. Ordinary plated screws aren't enough. That's a side issue, and not specific to drywall screws at all.
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highvolts582
Senior Member
- Location
- brick nj
Drywall screws
Drywall screws
It is my understanding that the issue with drywall screws is the edges are sharp and could
Damage the conducter. I use for smoke detector mounting. If you were able to cover the screws in a manner eliminating the possibility of insulation damage. Then it's ok. Duct seal is ok in my
Opinion. Bubblegum? Or those washers that the screw sets into is good to go. Some boxes come with Sheetrock screws built in like an old work box that screws to the beam. After installed screw goes into a recessed cavity preventing damage. I hit on this subject in class a few years ago.
Drywall screws
It is my understanding that the issue with drywall screws is the edges are sharp and could
Damage the conducter. I use for smoke detector mounting. If you were able to cover the screws in a manner eliminating the possibility of insulation damage. Then it's ok. Duct seal is ok in my
Opinion. Bubblegum? Or those washers that the screw sets into is good to go. Some boxes come with Sheetrock screws built in like an old work box that screws to the beam. After installed screw goes into a recessed cavity preventing damage. I hit on this subject in class a few years ago.
mivey
Senior Member
Me too. With humble pie for dessert.
- Location
- Massachusetts
- Location
- Simi Valley, CA
I find most people who can serve crow, can only do it because they've eaten it them selfs a time or two.
- Location
- Simi Valley, CA
and the human life expectancy was like 19.
And he only found an entire continent by bumping into it by accident.
And after he announced to the occupants of that continent that he had "discovered" them, he rewarded them by introducing smallpox to their world.
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perry vogler
Member
- Location
- Wildwood Florida
On screws used for mounting and all gray areas of the code, you must use products as listed and labeled, also in a workmanship like mater. Another words, you and the inspector must use their judgement as to whether the anchor is proper to hold whatever is correct.
You can't use a screw rated for inside application on the outside, it will rust and eventually fall off. If you use a drywall screw for mounting, it must go into a framing member. When we mount solar to the roof, we must use 5/16 stainless steel leg screws because it is needed for the pull out strength. The same apples to any screw or anchoring device, it must be able to hold the weight and withstand the pull out weight in case your box or conduit is pulled on or something hits it. I use the wall dog anchors for conduit and boxes and try to hit framing member for real support. I think you may have used drywall screws in drywall only, if so, that's it will get turned down.
Use the code as a minimum, install your work to last for life. PV
You can't use a screw rated for inside application on the outside, it will rust and eventually fall off. If you use a drywall screw for mounting, it must go into a framing member. When we mount solar to the roof, we must use 5/16 stainless steel leg screws because it is needed for the pull out strength. The same apples to any screw or anchoring device, it must be able to hold the weight and withstand the pull out weight in case your box or conduit is pulled on or something hits it. I use the wall dog anchors for conduit and boxes and try to hit framing member for real support. I think you may have used drywall screws in drywall only, if so, that's it will get turned down.
Use the code as a minimum, install your work to last for life. PV
north star
Senior Member
- Location
- inside Area 51
= = =
wood framing, "UNLESS", the AHJ has adopted language in to their
jurisdictional ordinances to disallow the use of "drywall screws" in certain
applications.....Always check with the AHJ!......There is always the practice
of "installing in a neat & workmanlike manner" involved, so do your best
and neatest work......Take some time to install things correctly! :thumbsup:
FWIW, joists are typically installed in the horizontal position, while
"studs" are installed in the vertical position.
= = =
Yes, drywall screws are "legal" to use in mounting the elec. boxes on to the
wood framing, "UNLESS", the AHJ has adopted language in to their
jurisdictional ordinances to disallow the use of "drywall screws" in certain
applications.....Always check with the AHJ!......There is always the practice
of "installing in a neat & workmanlike manner" involved, so do your best
and neatest work......Take some time to install things correctly! :thumbsup:
FWIW, joists are typically installed in the horizontal position, while
"studs" are installed in the vertical position.
= = =
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- Location
- Bremerton, Washington
- Occupation
- Master Electrician
Drywall screws are readily available and then end up being used for drywall and everything else. A drywall screw is very hard steel (read brittle) and has no give. Some places they shouldn't be used is on cabinets (use a washer head tapping screw) or tie off brackets.
For electrical boxes we typically use square drive. Whats nice is a lot of fittings come with combo heads - phillips and square drive. I like the square drive as the screws stay on the bit.
For electrical boxes we typically use square drive. Whats nice is a lot of fittings come with combo heads - phillips and square drive. I like the square drive as the screws stay on the bit.
What code change?
- Status