Settle The Score

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Irving LaRue

Irving LaRue

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Location
Warrenton, Virginia
Occupation
Electrician Apprentice
My master electrician who I shadow and I went to a customer’s house for a site visit. The customer bought his house “as is” during the 2020 house rush. The previous homeowner had some handyman or Harry Homeowner stuff going on. House was built sometime between 50s-60s.

My master told the customer about his meter base. It’s inside of this “mud room” / “breezeway” / whatever you call it. The SE cable attaches above and wraps around the front of the structure and down, passing through the structure’s wall and into the room where the meter base is located.

My master said it’s a code violation because you can’t pass SE into a structure like this without an accessible disconnect outside. We quoted the customer on moving the meter to the side of the structure with a disconnect and running SER across the room into the utility room inside. (On top of this problem, he’s got a 200A service that is fed into a 100A panel. It’s obvious someone changed the panel not too long ago)

There’s some debate on wether this structure (I’ll call it a “Breezeway” from here on out. Please correct me if you know the proper name) was original with the house or not. My master doesn’t believe that it is. There’s no record of inspections on the breezeway (or their new panel) so it’s hard to say for certain.

The customer called the power company and they said it could be grandfathered in and he doesn’t need to change the location of the meter. We believe he didn’t properly explain the situation to the power company because it seems unlikely they would vouch for such a set up. It seems that the power company may be under the impression it was original with the house.

I’m not sure if I have a specific question here. I’d like to learn more about who is correct here. My master generally seems like he knows his stuff, so I’m inclined to listen to him. Although, I’m not sure where to look in code for specifics and I know some of this comes down to local jurisdictions and power company discretion.

The homeowner is happy to not have to do the work and pay extra money, so it doesn’t seem like we will be doing the job. That ship has pretty well sailed. I’d just like to know people’s opinions on the matter. Thanks. 4AA12EE6-EB5D-4C79-BAB1-569697322B64.jpeg
 

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I believe it's a 10 ft rule. Outside disconnect required if it passes more than 10 ft inside the structure.

The triplex looks low over the roof. There's a height clearance it has to be high enough over the breezeway roof, idr the exact number but it's probably enough so it cannot be reached to from th roof. Both cites idk exactly. Have not done a service since the 1990's.

Not bad looking overall. If it's there now I would be inclined to leave it.

Services is Art 230. You should be able to find it in there.
 
In the second pic, you can see that the SE was originally flat against the original aluminum siding, which tells me that the room was built later, creating what are now a few violations.

The main rule I see now being broken is having to pass through a door to get to the meter.
 
Irving LaRue said:
My master electrician who I shadow and I went to a customer’s house for a site visit. The customer bought his house “as is” during the 2020 house rush. The previous homeowner had some handyman or Harry Homeowner stuff going on. House was built sometime between 50s-60s.

My master told the customer about his meter base. It’s inside of this “mud room” / “breezeway” / whatever you call it. The SE cable attaches above and wraps around the front of the structure and down, passing through the structure’s wall and into the room where the meter base is located.

My master said it’s a code violation because you can’t pass SE into a structure like this without an accessible disconnect outside. We quoted the customer on moving the meter to the side of the structure with a disconnect and running SER across the room into the utility room inside. (On top of this problem, he’s got a 200A service that is fed into a 100A panel. It’s obvious someone changed the panel not too long ago)

There’s some debate on wether this structure (I’ll call it a “Breezeway” from here on out. Please correct me if you know the proper name) was original with the house or not. My master doesn’t believe that it is. There’s no record of inspections on the breezeway (or their new panel) so it’s hard to say for certain.

The customer called the power company and they said it could be grandfathered in and he doesn’t need to change the location of the meter. We believe he didn’t properly explain the situation to the power company because it seems unlikely they would vouch for such a set up. It seems that the power company may be under the impression it was original with the house.

I’m not sure if I have a specific question here. I’d like to learn more about who is correct here. My master generally seems like he knows his stuff, so I’m inclined to listen to him. Although, I’m not sure where to look in code for specifics and I know some of this comes down to local jurisdictions and power company discretion.

The homeowner is happy to not have to do the work and pay extra money, so it doesn’t seem like we will be doing the job. That ship has pretty well sailed. I’d just like to know people’s opinions on the matter. Thanks. View attachment 2564574
Click to expand...
Where is the main service disconnect?
 
Irving LaRue said:
The customer called the power company and they said it could be grandfathered in and he doesn’t need to change the location of the meter. We believe he didn’t properly explain the situation to the power company because it seems unlikely they would vouch for such a set up. It seems that the power company may be under the impression it was original with the house.
Click to expand...
If they didn't leave the power off for an extended peroid of time or break the seal on the meter then the power company normally doesn't care much unless they spot a real hazard.

I would think there was some illegal work that went on there but if the the power company doesn't care.
 
LarryFine said:
In the second pic, you can see that the SE was originally flat against the original aluminum siding, which tells me that the room was built later, creating what are now a few violations.

The main rule I see now being broken is having to pass through a door to get to the meter.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the reply. What violations do you see?

I've seen the power company in my area require a customer to move their service because it was located inside a garage. My understanding is that is that the meter is NOT allowed to be inside a structure like this one.

My master took notice of the SE cable passing through the door frame. He said it should have been piped in the structure's roof in rigid pipe.
 
I completely missed the meter being inside the house. That might have been relatively common in the old days but not now.

The homeowner handyman question, I've seen where they feel confident changing the panel inside because no one can see them doing it but they're usually afraid to touch the meter / service cable. Usually see new panel with the old rotted service cable.

The meter service cable looks pretty new so I would guess they had it done professionally. No clue how it got past inspection being inside though.

Services have a limited lifetime. Same with the windows and siding, they age and should be or have to be done again. So if they can get 50 years out of it and then they need a new one I would not be in a hurry to replace something working now. Owner always has lots of other things to spend money on.
 
__dan said:
The meter service cable looks pretty new so I would guess they had it done professionally. No clue how it got past inspection being inside though.
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I feel certain that the service predates the room, and the wall was built around the cable.
 
If you look at the second pic enlarged, you can see where the paint was stuck between the original siding and the cable before it was pulled away for the 2x4 of the new wall to be attached to the old wall.
 
It's pretty obvious the room was added and the SE cable changed at that time. Looks like a siding contractors work to me. POA is location is ignored, but at least there is a drip loop. I've seen worse that was and is still functioning.

The only single family private property inspection outside of larger towns in our fair State is an Electrical and it is flagged only at SE change on existing properties. So, unless requested by the owner, this installation would be left alone.
 
__dan said:
I believe it's a 10 ft rule. Outside disconnect required if it passes more than 10 ft inside the structure.

The triplex looks low over the roof. There's a height clearance it has to be high enough over the breezeway roof, idr the exact number but it's probably enough so it cannot be reached to from th roof. Both cites idk exactly. Have not done a service since the 1990's.

Not bad looking overall. If it's there now I would be inclined to leave it.

Services is Art 230. You should be able to find it in there.
Click to expand...
Just FYI, your "10ft" is in your locality. In mine it is Immediately inside. Fore example, when it comes up through the floor, it needs to go straight in to the bottom of a panel. If it has an elbow, then you need a disconnect outside.
 
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