sewage pump for basement bath

[iwire]

Thank goodness !!! Somebody down in Trenton was thinking ahead.

To each state their own but I strongly disagree.

Preventing an electrocution should take precedence over preventing a mess or spoiling some food.

To that end if a pump is needed it better have an alarm and back up regardless of a GFCI or not.

 

[goldstar]

To each state their own but I strongly disagree.

Preventing an electrocution should take precedence over preventing a mess or spoiling some food.

To that end if a pump is needed it better have an alarm and back up regardless of a GFCI or not.

You can disagree and I respect your opinion. I also agree with having an alarm. With respect to the ejector pump, it's submersed in the effluents. What's the purpose of having GFCI protection on the pump ?

 

[ptonsparky]

You can disagree and I respect your opinion. I also agree with having an alarm. With respect to the ejector pump, it's submersed in the effluents. What's the purpose of having GFCI protection on the pump ?

When it fails to run, faulted, the guy wading knee deep in "effluents" isn't knocked on his rear and becomes waist deep in eff.

 

[iwire]

With respect to the ejector pump, it's submersed in the effluents. What's the purpose of having GFCI protection on the pump ?

The same purpose of any GFCI use. The protection of people.

What is the argument for not using a GFCI?

For me any argument for not using a GFCI is entirely blown away if the item in question does not have back up and/or alarm for utility failure.

But I also respect an areas right to set their own rules as they see fit.

 

[iwire]

When it fails to run, faulted, the guy wading knee deep in "effluents" isn't knocked on his rear and becomes waist deep in eff.

There is a image I could do without.

 

[George Stolz]

because they see thru your BS? And won't buy into it?

that is a blanket statement
have you tried?
give an example: I'll see if my meager brain can grasp to concept
like your work is so complex
how many elec engineers have you done work for?

Easy, big guy. There are many types of EEs, just as their are many grades of EI, JW, EC, and there are many EEs that fit the description. I have similar experiences as well. Some EEs shouldn't render advice on houses any more than an industrial electrician should.

 

[goldstar]

When it fails to run, faulted, the guy wading knee deep in "effluents" isn't knocked on his rear and becomes waist deep in eff.

So, let me see if I understand what you are implying - when the pump fails and there are effluents knee deep in the basement you're saying that if the GFCI were in place it would have tripped either before or during the knee deep flood was occurring or when the unit failed in the well. Is that correct ? Irrespective of whether a GFCI would have tripped or not there is still live voltage at the line end of the receptacle inside the JB

Personally speaking I would not be the one wading around in waste. Second, if it was that bad, pull the meter and have a septic service pump the basement. Then, if you're so inclined, put on your boots, procto gloves and gas mask and go in and change the pump.

 

[infinity]

With respect to the ejector pump, it's submersed in the effluents. What's the purpose of having GFCI protection on the pump ?

No purpose, the NEC required protection is for the receptacle not the pump. Put the pump in a location that would not require GFCI protection and you could plug it into a regular non-GFCI receptacle. In this case I agree with you the New Jersey exception is a good one.

 

[George Stolz]

Agreed, but I have to say...

Then, if you're so inclined, put on your boots, procto gloves and gas mask and go in and change the pump.

Where do I sign up for this gig!

 

[iwire]

=infinity;1813076]No purpose, the NEC required protection is for the receptacle not the pump.

Correct and what plugs into it does not change how electricity behaves.

Put the pump in a location that would not require GFCI protection and you could plug it into a regular non-GFCI receptacle.

For sure.

 

[goldstar]

I have a great deal of respect for guys who work on and repair septic systems (with respect to electrical work). We don't socialize or have lunch together and I don't get too close to them but I respect their service.:lol:

 

[iwire]

Where do I sign up for this gig!

I have done it, you are not missing much.

 

[kwired]

You can disagree and I respect your opinion. I also agree with having an alarm. With respect to the ejector pump, it's submersed in the effluents. What's the purpose of having GFCI protection on the pump ?

the pump doesn't require protection, unless instructions call for it. The receptacle often is in a location that does require GFCI protection.

Back when we were allowed to have individual non protected receptacles for specific equipment, you often would find the users would plug three ways, power strips, etc. into that outlet instead of using the nearby GFCI for things other then the dedicated appliance.

 

[AJElectric]

No purpose, the NEC required protection is for the receptacle not the pump. Put the pump in a location that would not require GFCI protection and you could plug it into a regular non-GFCI receptacle.

This is a very good point and often forgotten. Confusion as to why the GFCI is there.

As far as I'm concerned, a situation with any amount of standing water is incredibly dangerous, more than most people realize. No matter who wired the place or what code it meets or if there's a submersible pump or not, can you make a safe bet the water isn't energized? What about the alarm clock setting on the floor of the finished bedroom in the corner of the basement? I'm not arguing for/against GFCI on this pump, just saying kill the mains before entry regardless.

For me any argument for not using a GFCI is entirely blown away if the item in question does not have back up and/or alarm for utility failure.

also a very good point

 

[Barbqranch]

If this is anything like the situation we have in our plant, the unit is only handling the waste water (++) from that one fixture, and is in its own enclosure. Ours sit directly behind the toilet, and run usually for 3 to 6 seconds after each flush. There are side inlets for sinks, showers, etc. The purpose is only to move the material up to the level of the sewer pipe. If you use the toilet enough times with the pump not working to get 6 inches of liquid on your floor, you have other serious (medical) problems.

At my home, there is a pump chamber after the septic tank. That is a whole different beast.

 

[kwired]

If this is anything like the situation we have in our plant, the unit is only handling the waste water (++) from that one fixture, and is in its own enclosure. Ours sit directly behind the toilet, and run usually for 3 to 6 seconds after each flush. There are side inlets for sinks, showers, etc. The purpose is only to move the material up to the level of the sewer pipe. If you use the toilet enough times with the pump not working to get 6 inches of liquid on your floor, you have other serious (medical) problems.

At my home, there is a pump chamber after the septic tank. That is a whole different beast.

Exactly what most of them I have seen are like as well. You have to be pretty ignorant to keep flushing after you notice the water has backed up, and should not have a situation of knee deep water to wade through.

Sump pumps for runoff water or leaching from high water table is a different story, but the bio-hazard should be much less if you do have flooding with those.

 

[jumper]

I have done it, you are not missing much.

I used to get the glamorous job of swapping the big grinder and lift pumps at the college.

Despite a tyvek suit, latex gloves, etc I would still end up covered...........petunias.

 

[peter d]

I used to get the glamorous job of swapping the big grinder and lift pumps at the college.

Despite a tyvek suit, latex gloves, etc I would still end up covered...........petunias.

I can just image what ended up in those pits at a college.

 

[Ingenieur]

Easy, big guy. There are many types of EEs, just as their are many grades of EI, JW, EC, and there are many EEs that fit the description. I have similar experiences as well. Some EEs shouldn't render advice on houses any more than an industrial electrician should.

nice deflection skippyI'll take that as a no, you've never discussed it with themwaste sumps aren't the only thing full of crap

no issue with an indust elec wiring a house as long as he competent in his trade

lot of disrespect and demeaning for engineers around here
I will keep my comments about electricians to my self
say nothing if you have nothing good to say
but we have all seen some of the questions they have asked

 

[growler]

lot of disrespect and demeaning for engineers around here.

I disagree. I think there is a great deal of respect for engineers around here and in the trades.

That doesn't mean that everyone that claims to be or even has a degree in engineering gets that respect.

I think you have a persecution complex and take every comment personally. I hear bad things about electricians all the time and I agree with most of them because I know the assholes that give the trade a bad name. Sometimes blanket statements are make that can make you think people are talking about everyone in a profession but it's really the bad apples that are really the point of the statement. Some engineers can be a pain to deal with and those are the one's people remember.

I even know some good lawyers, my daughter is a lawyer but I almost never say anything good about them because there are a lot of bad one's.

If you have that big brain either use it or give it back to the Wizard and stop with the strawman arguements.