Shock at faucet.
- Thread starter torint
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2023
- Occupation
- Hospital Master Electrician
Someone posted an experience once where recently blown-in insulation on K&T energized a metallic drain pipe through the moist insulation. I forget who it was (Larry Fine, Jeff from Minnesota, or Al H. are in the running in my mind).romeo said:
So, it could be their toe is already on the drain when they touch the bonded faucet, it's a possibility. But my money's on the open (or resistive) neutral.
You should, I do it all the time.
Shock at faucet
Shock at faucet
Shock at faucet
georgestolz said:Someone posted an experience once where recently blown-in insulation on K&T energized a metallic drain pipe through the moist insulation. I forget who it was (Larry Fine, Jeff from Minnesota, or Al H. are in the running in my mind).
So, it could be their toe is already on the drain when they touch the bonded faucet, it's a possibility. But my money's on the open (or resistive) neutral.
You should, I do it all the time.
I was not going to go into this but now i will. Many years ago a good friend told me her young children were getting shocks when taking a bath. I was a young want to be electrician but knew enough that there was a serious problem. The truth is it was not just a good friend it was my sister.I rushed to her home and with a voltage meter was reading 110 volts from the faucet to the drain at the kitchen sink.
I did the obvious thing and removed fuses until the voltage was removed.
Now knowing the circuit that caused the problem I traced the wire to a point where I found that someone had put it through a piece of pipe that was in contact with a water pipe,the wire insulation was damaged and there was the problem.
I was about 16yrs.old at the time and working after school in an electrical supply house. Thinking back i wonder if I saved a serious injury or worse to a niece or nephew.
So as we know strange things happen in this industry that we are in.I am sure we can all tell story's, I know I can
I am still going on my hunch though that this shock is being caused by an open neutral.
goldstar
Senior Member
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
The water system may be bonded but that doesn't mean the drain is bonded. Also, if whatever is energizing the ungrounded drain, is not on the load side of a GFI receptacle then it won't trip either. Remember, your customer is basically making themselves a fuse by completing a circuit between the ungrounded energized drain and the grounded faucet.romeo said:
I'll buy into the theory that it could possibly be an open neutral. However, you just changed over the service so unless you forgot to tighten the neutral in the meter pan or in the main breaker panel I would rule out the open service neutral. But check it anyway, just in case.
I thought of another possibility for your problem. If there is armored cable installed in this house there could be a situation where the armor disengaged itself from a grounding reference (i.e a junction box) and the insulation of the wiring inside that jacket was cut by the armor. If that is the case the armor is now energized and if it is laying on or somehow came in contact with any portion of the ungrounded drain that could be the problem. There are a lot of things you have to check but you're not going to know where to look until you start eliminating possibilities.
I had a similar situation once and traced it to a (homeowner or DIYer) connected garbage disposal. Whomever had connected it reverse polarity and had not connected an EGC. The result was 120 volts potential from the metal kitchen sink to ground. Ground in this instance was the person washing their hair in said sink. I measured the potential from a nearby countertop receptacle. Un-plugged the improperly wired disposal and problem was gone. Sold a new garbage disposal and installation that day and had a very happy customer. The disposal was apparently shorting to the metal case and without the benefit of an EGC created this dangerous situation.
The open service neutral is a more likely culprit than a disposal. Just thought I'd share an experience that I will never forget with you.
The open service neutral is a more likely culprit than a disposal. Just thought I'd share an experience that I will never forget with you.
kbsparky
Senior Member
- Location
- Delmarva, USA
Did you happen to check whether the stray voltage was still present with the main breaker "off" ?
On one job we were involved in, the stray voltage remained even with the main off. We traced it to the drain pipes, which were cast iron, and went out to the yard, down near to where a utility pole with a butt ground was located.
Apparently, the utility's ground from that pole was leaving some juice in the ground, which was ultimately flowing thru the dwelling's plumbing pipes, to the service equipment, and eventually to the next pole which served the house.
Bonding the drains to the supply lines eliminated the shock while in the shower problems.
While you might think that the power company is soley responsible here, it's best to protect yourself from their loose connections as well.
On one job we were involved in, the stray voltage remained even with the main off. We traced it to the drain pipes, which were cast iron, and went out to the yard, down near to where a utility pole with a butt ground was located.
Apparently, the utility's ground from that pole was leaving some juice in the ground, which was ultimately flowing thru the dwelling's plumbing pipes, to the service equipment, and eventually to the next pole which served the house.
Bonding the drains to the supply lines eliminated the shock while in the shower problems.
While you might think that the power company is soley responsible here, it's best to protect yourself from their loose connections as well.
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