Should a bare Aluminum neutral service entrance wire be twisted tightly?

[cgamad550]

Hello guys I have a question. At my grandmother's house she had an old sub panel box that was probably installed 30 years ago.
She had issues with lights flickering ECT.
I seen the sub panel only had 3 wires coming in. 2 hots and bare neutral.
So I installed a new Square D homeline 100 amp sub panel and pulled #2 Copper and sperate Equipment Ground Conductor and also separated the neutrals and grounds
Installed all new Homeline breakers.
However now the flickering light have gotten worse.
I went out and took a good look at the service entrance panel and this is an very old Square D QO panel no main disconnect just 2 hots coming in from the meter can to main lugs and also a bare Aluminum stranded wire however I noticed that the neutral wire coming in from the meter is not twisted hardly at all all the stranded appear loose.
My question is could that Bare Aluminum Neutral/Ground being loose and not twisted tightly together be the issue for the lights flickering. I've heard it could but wanted to check with some other electricians to verify this and if so the best way to twist this wire and I've never worked with bare neutral service entrance wire before I've also used the insulted ones.
Thanks in advance for the info.

 

[cgamad550]

To further give details this is what the old sub panel looked like ( one Big Mess ).

 

[James L]

Loose neutral can certainly make lights flicker. One of the first things is to check all connections.

The bare neutral strands don't necessarily have to be twisted, but many times the fine strands won't all stay under a lug screw, so twisting can help a lot.

 

[LarryFine]

My question is could that Bare Aluminum Neutral/Ground being loose and not twisted tightly together be the issue for the lights flickering.

No. Poorly terminated, yes. Not being twisted, no.

But don't assume only the neutral contributes to flickering.

Every connection should be checked. An incandescent bulb makes an effective tester.

And do fall-of-potential testing, looking for voltage between points that shouldn't have any.

 

[cgamad550]

Loose neutral can certainly make lights flicker. One of the first things is to check all connections.

The bare neutral strands don't necessarily have to be twisted, but many times the fine strands won't all stay under a lug screw, so twisting can help a lot.

Hi James that strands in that neutral service entrance don't look twisted at all it looks like the strands are just side by side so I didn't know if that could be the issue. I double checked everything in the new sub panel and everything is torque to specs ECT so no issues I see there and I do have neutrals and grounds separated in the new sub panel. But it seems the flickers got worse after I installed the new sub panel.
My guess is maybe the 100 amp breaker feeding the sub panel may have a issue if it's not the neutral service conductor.
I've installed a good bit of sub panels and never had this issue before

 

[LarryFine]

I double checked everything in the new sub panel and everything is torque to specs ECT so no issues I see there and I do have neutrals and grounds separated in the new sub panel. But it seems the flickers got worse after I installed the new sub panel.

Have you checked everything between he meter and the sub-panel?

You seem to be certain that the problem is in the new work.

 

[cgamad550]

Yes I've checked all voltage coming in at the main panel, at the breaker feeding the sub panel and voltage at the sub panel and all is correct. I don't seem to have any voltage drops

 

[LarryFine]

I don't seem to have any voltage drops

Every time there is a flicker, there is a voltage drop occurring. The trick is finding it.

It could be anywhere from the utility transformer to the circuit(s) in question.

 

[cgamad550]

Yeah that that hard part cause it's flickering everywhere. It doesn't seem to be just isolated to once circuit. And as stated it was doing this before I replaced the sub panel but dis seen to get worse

 

[jim dungar]

What are your voltages during the flickering? At both the main panel and the subpanel.
L1-L2
L1-G
L2-G
L1-N
L2-N
N-G

 

[James L]

I had a job with flickering lights, and couldn't see anything wrong at first and second look.t was just weird.

What it turned out to be was no neutral coming from the pole. But the bare ground to the air conditioner was making intermittent contact with the bare neutral.

I'm thinking all the old work needs to be looked over

 

[cgamad550]

I had a job with flickering lights, and couldn't see anything wrong at first and second look.t was just weird.

What it turned out to be was no neutral coming from the pole. But the bare ground to the air conditioner was making intermittent contact with the bare neutral.

I'm thinking all the old work needs to be looked over

James L so in that situation like you had was it an issue on the power company side? Or how did you correct the issue. And yes my grandmother's house is probably 60 or 70 years old. But in the old sub panel they only had 3 wires coming in L-1, L-2 And Bare Neutral. And Neutral and ground was also bonded in the sub panel.
When I replaced the sub panel I pulled 4 wires copper feed and separate neutral and ground ( no bonding ) but now the flickering got worse. The only thing I didn't change was the 2 pole 100 amp breaker feeding the sub panel

 

[James L]

James L so in that situation like you had was it an issue on the power company side? Or how did you correct the issue. And yes my grandmother's house is probably 60 or 70 years old. But in the old sub panel they only had 3 wires coming in L-1, L-2 And Bare Neutral. And Neutral and ground was also bonded in the sub panel.
When I replaced the sub panel I pulled 4 wires copper feed and separate neutral and ground ( no bonding ) but now the flickering got worse. The only thing I didn't change was the 2 pole 100 amp breaker feeding the sub panel

Yes, it was on the power company side.
Mine wasn't in a subpanel, it was in the main breaker panel. It was about 12 or 13 years ago, so I'm shooting from memory. But I remember there was a separate ground bar which the air conditioner ground wire was landed in. The bonding screw was gone, which didn't see at first. But that bare ground from the a/c was against the bare neutral coming from the meter and making a connection enough to tell me volt meter it was good.

I'm not saying your issue will be the same, just that reading good voltage on all the wires may not tell you all the story

 

[cgamad550]

James L yea the mail panel is really old and I didn't even see a place for a neutral/ground bonding screw. This is identical to the panel outside. So I don't know if there somehow bonded or not.

 

[James L]

James L yea the mail panel is really old and I didn't even see a place for a neutral/ground bonding screw. This is identical to the panel outside. So I don't know if there somehow bonded or not.

I can't see it from that angle, but if it's not bonded it could be similar to what I had that many years ago. It looks like bare Romex ground very near the incoming neutral, if not touching.

Just something to consider, not saying that's your fix

 

[cgamad550]

James L this was how the sub panel was that replaced yesterday. I separate neutrals and grounds on the new sub panel and no bonding screw. But the outside main panel is hooked up just like this was. And I'm thinking cause it's such an old panel maybe there's not a true neutral to ground bond on the outside panel that could maybe cause an issue. There only one bar in the panel outside that a bare neutral connects to. I see no bonding screw anywhere. Is this possibly a main panel issue?

 

[cgamad550]

James L this was how the sub panel was that replaced yesterday. I separate neutrals and grounds on the new sub panel and no bonding screw. But the outside main panel is hooked up just like this was. And I'm thinking cause it's such an old panel maybe there's not a true neutral to ground bond on the outside panel that could maybe cause an issue. There only one bar in the panel outside that a bare neutral connects to. I see no bonding screw anywhere. Is this possibly a main panel issue?

James L this is the before and after of the sub panel.

 

[James L]

James L this was how the sub panel was that replaced yesterday. I separate neutrals and grounds on the new sub panel and no bonding screw. But the outside main panel is hooked up just like this was. And I'm thinking cause it's such an old panel maybe there's not a true neutral to ground bond on the outside panel that could maybe cause an issue. There only one bar in the panel outside that a bare neutral connects to. I see no bonding screw anywhere. Is this possibly a main panel issue?

That's a good possibility.

 

[James L]

James L this is the before and after of the sub panel.

It's possible that there's no neutral, and there may have been sketchy contact between grounds and bare neutral wires in both panels. And maybe some of those grounds weren't landed well

If so.....

now you would have cleaned up half and removed some of that contact and made the flickering worse.

 

[cgamad550]

That's a good possibility.

This is the before and after. Originally they had neutrals and grounds on the same bar which I know is a no no in a sub panel so of course done it correct with the new sub panel and separated. But now the flickering seems worse. But outside I don't really seen a neutral to ground bond.