Should I just shut up

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brian john

Senior Member
Location
Kilmarnock, Va
Occupation
Retired after 52 years in the trade.
I was in a supply house and two electricians were discussing the proper way to ground a generator, IMO both were wrong. One wanted to ground the neutral at the generator (2 pole ATS 240/120 single phase) and drive a ground rod, the other electrician wanted to isolate the neutral at the generator and attach it to two ground rods (he adamantly insisted the NEC requires two ground rods). I explained what I feel the NEC requires, both gave me a look like, are you stupid, especially when I attempted to explain the the purpose of a ground rod. They both shook their heads and one walked away and said something derogatory about how stupid I was. The other guy said the generator would not operate properly with the NEC REQUIRED ground rods. After a few drawings and trying to explain what I feel would be correct, I did what I should have done in the first place (I guess) and said sorry to have interrupted your conversation, take care and I left.

Is it wrong to try and help (educate) electricians? Or is it better to just mind your own business.
 
brian john said:
I was in a supply house and two electricians were discussing the proper way to ground a generator, IMO both were wrong. One wanted to ground the neutral at the generator (2 pole ATS 240/120 single phase) and drive a ground rod, the other electrician wanted to isolate the neutral at the generator and attach it to two ground rods (he adamantly insisted the NEC requires two ground rods). I explained what I feel the NEC requires, both gave me a look like, are you stupid, especially when I attempted to explain the the purpose of a ground rod. They both shook their heads and one walked away and said something derogatory about how stupid I was. The other guy said the generator would not operate properly with the NEC REQUIRED ground rods. After a few drawings and trying to explain what I feel would be correct, I did what I should have done in the first place (I guess) and said sorry to have interrupted your conversation, take care and I left.

Is it wrong to try and help (educate) electricians? Or is it better to just mind your own business.
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IMO its not wrong, but I think you already know whats going to happen if you try...
 
I don't think you were wrong in trying to help educate a fellow electrician. As an instructor I will try to help someone unserstand the code if I overhear a discussion that is not acurate. The problem is there are a lot of people out there that can't accept when they are wrong and don't see a discussion like this as a chance to learn.

For what iits worth, I would have done the same thing you did.

Chris
 
stickboy1375 said:
...but I think you already know whats going to happen if you try...
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Ahh, but on that occasion when one gets to see the dawning realization spread in the listener, to me, this makes all the other rejected attempts worth while.

I appreciate your grace note, with the two electricians at the supply house, for "interrupting" their conversation. Offering the info without proselytizing has the greatest potential, in this kind of situation, IMO.

If they can't or don't want to hear, hey, as Morpheus says, "My beliefs don't require you to believe as I do."
 
If I knew they were wrong yes, I'd correct them, I just want the Napkin sketchs.:rolleyes:

Been there, done that, Hit the sugar rush & all... and would still do it again!
 
Shut Up!!

Shut Up!!

ENOUGH ALREADY!!

QUIT YOUR ARGUING!!!

you don't know the specifications of the generator and the manufacturer's recommendations

what type of neutral does it have?

floating, bonded, isolated?????
 
brian john said:
Or is it better to just mind your own business.
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It just depends on how frustrated you want to be for the rest of the day. :grin:

Roger
 
brian john said:
I was in a supply house and two electricians were discussing. . . .
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Denis, its only a argument if the other has to change his/er mind based on your belief.

Our trade is built on sound, and well understood, "theoretical" principals about voltage, current, electric and magnetic fields, resistance, capacitance and inductance. Applying these principals to wide ranging mechanical assemblies creates a theater in which education almost continually takes place.

IMO, good education is accompanied with lots of discussion.
 
Too frequently, when 2 electricians are debating an issue the goal changes from doing the right thing to not being the one who was wrong. Getting a GROUP of electricians to agree is like herding cats.
 
roger said:
It just depends on how frustrated you want to be for the rest of the day.
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:smile:

Or, whether you have to carry their emotional reaction, and your reaction to it, with you as your emotion for the rest of the day. The illusion in "You make me [emotion]insert word[/emotion]" is that someone else has any control over my emotion. My emotion is my own and I can choose to change it.
 
al hildenbrand said:
IMO, good education is accompanied with lots of discussion.
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If there is anyone here that disagrees with this statement just try to teach the wall something. I promise it will have no discussion with you at all.
 
Thumbs, Up and Down !

Thumbs, Up and Down !

al hildenbrand said:
....
Our trade is built on sound, and well understood, "theoretical" principals about voltage, current, electric and magnetic fields, resistance, capacitance and inductance. Applying these principals to wide ranging mechanical assemblies creates a theater in which education almost continually takes place.

IMO, good education is accompanied with lots of discussion.
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I beleive that why alot of us are here! (to the last sentence)

Overall:
Well thought out, really, I mean really well said, but IMO truely not what's happening day in and day out.

This forum has many posts that clearly state of others missing the mark of the doing electrical work that will not past muster, and in this case not understanding what their working with and what is the correct application.

If you'd of said ideally or maybe used another word that clearifies or even qualifies this utopic thought of our vocation, I won't have posted this. :rolleyes:
 
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I just shake my head when I here this stuff and walk away..I don't think my insurance would cover the liability if someone went and did it wrong and someone got hurt and said so an so said it was to be done this way..Unless I know the advice is really bad and dangerous I try not offering an opinion..I do how ever enjoy stimulating a conversation in the correct setting..
 
It Was Worth a Try

It Was Worth a Try

brian john said:
Is it wrong to try and help (educate) electricians? Or is it better to just mind your own business.
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You should size up the situiation before opening your mouth.
It's nice to try and help and it's rewarding, especially when they appreciate it.
But you have this forum, and the people here are the ones looking for the answers.....
Help those you can and let the rest go. :smile:

And remember....There is no insult like the truth

Brian, fight the good fight and keep smiling http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAH1oEPaILw
 
Unfourtunately most electricians don't know code or really want to learn it. They saw something done one way, thought they learned it that way in class or the inspector told them one time. Most are egotistical and don't want your input on how things should be done per NEC. They think they already know it all. Maybe something like this would help weed out the ones that are not beyond saving; "What section of the code did you check on this?" That might give you a heads up on those that are learners and those that just do it as they see fit.
 
So your someplace having a disagreement with someone you know, then some stranger comes up and says your both wrong.

Maybe it is just me, but I don't think most people will react well to that unless you have a really good delivery. :smile:
 
When I go in Lowe's or Home Depot, I put a piece of duct tape over the embroidered company name on my shirt. That keeps people from asking me questions. I must admit, however, that it's real tough to bite my tongue when I hear potentially hazardous advice being given out, by an electrician or otherwise, but somehow I manage.
 
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