• We will be performing upgrades on the forums and server over the weekend. The forums may be unavailable multiple times for up to an hour each. Thank you for your patience and understanding as we work to make the forums even better.

Sick and tired of constant code changing year after year

Status
Not open for further replies.
tom baker

tom baker

First Chief Moderator & NEC Expert
Staff member
Location
Bremerton, Washington
Occupation
Master Electrician
hbiss said:
But the differences are not that great. I agree, licenses should be reciprocal without testing. When you apply in a new state you should receive information about how or if they have amended the NEC and any local requirements. If you are capable of passing the test originally you should know what they are talking about.

I think the whole thing with not reciprocating is to limit competition.

-Hal
Click to expand...
No. It’s due to different requirements to get certified. Washington electricians cannot reciprocate with Oregon because Oregon requires 75% passing score on the journey level exam, and Washington only requires 70%. It’s much easier to reciprocate if you are a graduate of a recognized electrical apprenticeship program. Washington used to reciprocate with Texas, but our state board found out that the requirements for certification in Texas are much less rigorous than the Washington requirements.
 
Ponchik

Ponchik

Senior Member
Location
CA
Occupation
Electronologist
I agree that CA contractor licensing test and the journeyman electrician test is a joke. IMO, the reason we have such a high failure rate is because they don't study. If one studies and learns how to navigate the NEC then they can pass any electrical exam. Of course general electrical knowledge and trad experience will help as well.
 
gadfly56

gadfly56

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Professional Engineer, Fire & Life Safety
roger said:
Not necessarily, the NEC is not law, it is voluntary. A state, city, county, etc... can write their own code if they want to and some do.
Click to expand...
Yes. They can be just like New York City. God help us.
 
G

gene6

Senior Member
Location
NY
Occupation
Electrician
gadfly56 said:
Yes. They can be just like New York City. God help us.
Click to expand...
I agree, the sponsor of this forum Mike Holt is very critical of CMP's making code changes just to make changes.
An industry has emerged that depends on the code changing.
The whole thing reminds me of the Stanford professor that proposed a easy and painless tax code. I normally hate NPR's bias but they covered it well back in 2017 and it stuck with me:
https://www.npr.org/2017/03/29/5219...litical-battle-to-simplify-tax-filing-process

I feel like the same thing could be done for the NEC, a vastly simplified code thats semi automatic.
 
M

macmikeman

Senior Member
Location
Planet macmikeman
don_resqcapt19 said:
Around here the engineering documents show much less detail for the electrician than they did 20 years ago, and show almost nothing compared to 50 years ago when I started.

The electrician needs to know a lot more code now than ever before because of the lack of detail in the design documents.
Click to expand...
I concur with this, and would add that the self importance of said designers's has risen in indirect proportion to the lack of included design since the same fifty years on my ticket.
 
acrwc10

acrwc10

Master Code Professional
Location
CA
Occupation
Building inspector
tom baker said:
No. There are 3 parts to the test, theory, laws, code. Probably 150 questions. First time pass rate is 55% for journey level.
Click to expand...
Some people just can’t take test very well, 🤣
It’s 7.5 questions difference, (how do you score a 1/2 of a question?) sorry you only got 74.5%
 
W

Warren @ IBEW Local #46

Member
Location
Cosmopolis, WA
Occupation
Educational Coordinator / Master Electrician
tom baker said:
No. It’s due to different requirements to get certified. Washington electricians cannot reciprocate with Oregon because Oregon requires 75% passing score on the journey level exam, and Washington only requires 70%. It’s much easier to reciprocate if you are a graduate of a recognized electrical apprenticeship program. Washington used to reciprocate with Texas, but our state board found out that the requirements for certification in Texas are much less rigorous than the Washington requirements.
Click to expand...
Let me correct the issue of reciprocating a WA EL01 with Oregon's General Journeyman. If you have completed a WA State approved Apprenticeship program or if you are a WA Master Electrician (ME01) you can reciprocate your license to Oregon without examination. The same is true if you have an Oregon General Journeyman and completed an Apprenticeship program or are a Signing Supervisor. The you can get your Washington EL01 without testing. Also, we never actually reciprocated with Texas. When Texas wanted to join the 14-state reciprocity group in 2009, Washington's Electrical Board dropped all reciprocity and currently only has reciprocity with the State of Oregon.
I have one other comment on testing. No competent journey-level electrician should be afraid of taking a Code test. If you know how to find information in your NEC, you will pass the test. If you don't know your Code, you shouldn't get a license.
 
W

Warren @ IBEW Local #46

Member
Location
Cosmopolis, WA
Occupation
Educational Coordinator / Master Electrician
tom baker said:
No. There are 3 parts to the test, theory, laws, code. Probably 150 questions. First time pass rate is 55% for journey level.
Click to expand...
I need to correct this post also.
The Washington State journey-level exam (EL01) consists of 2-parts. 60 NEC / Theory questions with a 3-hour time limit (open book) and 17 RCW / WAC (Washington's Laws & Rules) questions with a 1-hour time limit. The current first-time pass rate is about 50% (for graduates of an approved Apprenticeship Program the first-time pass rate is about 85%). WA Labor & Industries Electrical Section provides the pass rates for all of the WA electrical exams on a quarterly basis.

Washington is about to become an Apprenticeship State. On July 1, 2023, to qualify to take the EL01 Journey-level exam you will have to be a graduate of a State approved apprenticeship program.
 
Z

zbang

Senior Member
Location
Roughly 5346 miles from Earls Court
rambojoe said:
No ones fixing them, thats for sure.
Click to expand...
Lots of pipe organs out there, still work for the organ builders. And very little is MIDI since it's far too slow for a full organ, they use ethernet-based controls.

Code stuff? Sure, things change, but a lot stays the same year to year. I do wish they'd go back to putting change-bars on the pages, though; not sure when those vanished.
 
O

Opie11

Member
Location
New York
Occupation
Railroad Electrician
Wiesbaden, Germany Marktkirche.
Over 6000 pipes and sounds incredible when traditional music is played or midi is used in conjunction with the pipe organ to play for example big band tunes. Heard it in action on a weekly basis for most of a year time frame.

Local organ where I live has control circuits for all the stops but the sound is still ultimately produced by air through a pipe.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top