Sick and tired of constant code changing year after year

[rambojoe]

Indeed there is. But organ builders need not concern themselves with it.
(damn! now I feel compelled to read Article 650 in detail)

Hate to say it, but its now all midi and digital...

 

[tom baker]

But the differences are not that great. I agree, licenses should be reciprocal without testing. When you apply in a new state you should receive information about how or if they have amended the NEC and any local requirements. If you are capable of passing the test originally you should know what they are talking about.

I think the whole thing with not reciprocating is to limit competition.

-Hal

No. It’s due to different requirements to get certified. Washington electricians cannot reciprocate with Oregon because Oregon requires 75% passing score on the journey level exam, and Washington only requires 70%. It’s much easier to reciprocate if you are a graduate of a recognized electrical apprenticeship program. Washington used to reciprocate with Texas, but our state board found out that the requirements for certification in Texas are much less rigorous than the Washington requirements.

 

[Ponchik]

I agree that CA contractor licensing test and the journeyman electrician test is a joke. IMO, the reason we have such a high failure rate is because they don't study. If one studies and learns how to navigate the NEC then they can pass any electrical exam. Of course general electrical knowledge and trad experience will help as well.

 

[tortuga]

biggest change was adopting Phillips-head screws.

Was it really Phillips not Robertson?

 

[gadfly56]

Not necessarily, the NEC is not law, it is voluntary. A state, city, county, etc... can write their own code if they want to and some do.

Yes. They can be just like New York City. God help us.

 

[gene6]

Yes. They can be just like New York City. God help us.

I agree, the sponsor of this forum Mike Holt is very critical of CMP's making code changes just to make changes.
An industry has emerged that depends on the code changing.
The whole thing reminds me of the Stanford professor that proposed a easy and painless tax code. I normally hate NPR's bias but they covered it well back in 2017 and it stuck with me:
https://www.npr.org/2017/03/29/5219...litical-battle-to-simplify-tax-filing-process

I feel like the same thing could be done for the NEC, a vastly simplified code thats semi automatic.

 

[drcampbell]

Hate to say it, but its now all midi and digital...

Actual pipe organs have gone midi? That is a huge surprise.

 

[rambojoe]

Actual pipe organs have gone midi? That is a huge surprise.

No ones fixing them, thats for sure.

 

[gadfly56]

No ones fixing them, thats for sure.

A friend of mine from college and his dad fixed pipe organs as a hobby. I'm sure his dad has since passed, but I don't know if Norm kept up with it.

 

[drcampbell]

No ones fixing them, that's for sure.

At least one company still does: https://buzardorgans.com/

 

[macmikeman]

Around here the engineering documents show much less detail for the electrician than they did 20 years ago, and show almost nothing compared to 50 years ago when I started.

The electrician needs to know a lot more code now than ever before because of the lack of detail in the design documents.

I concur with this, and would add that the self importance of said designers's has risen in indirect proportion to the lack of included design since the same fifty years on my ticket.

 

[retirede]

No ones fixing them, thats for sure.

Our church has ours serviced by a company out of St. Louis. I can’t remember their name.

 

[hbiss]

Washington electricians cannot reciprocate with Oregon because Oregon requires 75% passing score on the journey level exam, and Washington only requires 70%.

Please! What does that amount to, missing one more question?

-Hal

 

[tom baker]

Please! What does that amount to, missing one more question?

-Hal

No. There are 3 parts to the test, theory, laws, code. Probably 150 questions. First time pass rate is 55% for journey level.

 

[acrwc10]

No. There are 3 parts to the test, theory, laws, code. Probably 150 questions. First time pass rate is 55% for journey level.

Some people just can’t take test very well,
It’s 7.5 questions difference, (how do you score a 1/2 of a question?) sorry you only got 74.5%

 

[Warren @ IBEW Local #46]

No. It’s due to different requirements to get certified. Washington electricians cannot reciprocate with Oregon because Oregon requires 75% passing score on the journey level exam, and Washington only requires 70%. It’s much easier to reciprocate if you are a graduate of a recognized electrical apprenticeship program. Washington used to reciprocate with Texas, but our state board found out that the requirements for certification in Texas are much less rigorous than the Washington requirements.

Let me correct the issue of reciprocating a WA EL01 with Oregon's General Journeyman. If you have completed a WA State approved Apprenticeship program or if you are a WA Master Electrician (ME01) you can reciprocate your license to Oregon without examination. The same is true if you have an Oregon General Journeyman and completed an Apprenticeship program or are a Signing Supervisor. The you can get your Washington EL01 without testing. Also, we never actually reciprocated with Texas. When Texas wanted to join the 14-state reciprocity group in 2009, Washington's Electrical Board dropped all reciprocity and currently only has reciprocity with the State of Oregon.
I have one other comment on testing. No competent journey-level electrician should be afraid of taking a Code test. If you know how to find information in your NEC, you will pass the test. If you don't know your Code, you shouldn't get a license.

 

[Warren @ IBEW Local #46]

No. There are 3 parts to the test, theory, laws, code. Probably 150 questions. First time pass rate is 55% for journey level.

I need to correct this post also.
The Washington State journey-level exam (EL01) consists of 2-parts. 60 NEC / Theory questions with a 3-hour time limit (open book) and 17 RCW / WAC (Washington's Laws & Rules) questions with a 1-hour time limit. The current first-time pass rate is about 50% (for graduates of an approved Apprenticeship Program the first-time pass rate is about 85%). WA Labor & Industries Electrical Section provides the pass rates for all of the WA electrical exams on a quarterly basis.

Washington is about to become an Apprenticeship State. On July 1, 2023, to qualify to take the EL01 Journey-level exam you will have to be a graduate of a State approved apprenticeship program.

 

[electrofelon]

Washington is about to become an Apprenticeship State. On July 1, 2023, to qualify to take the EL01 Journey-level exam you will have to be a graduate of a State approved apprenticeship program.

Yes, that is very sad.

 

[zbang]

No ones fixing them, thats for sure.

Lots of pipe organs out there, still work for the organ builders. And very little is MIDI since it's far too slow for a full organ, they use ethernet-based controls.

Code stuff? Sure, things change, but a lot stays the same year to year. I do wish they'd go back to putting change-bars on the pages, though; not sure when those vanished.

 

[Opie11]

Wiesbaden, Germany Marktkirche.
Over 6000 pipes and sounds incredible when traditional music is played or midi is used in conjunction with the pipe organ to play for example big band tunes. Heard it in action on a weekly basis for most of a year time frame.

Local organ where I live has control circuits for all the stops but the sound is still ultimately produced by air through a pipe.