Sidework

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LawnGuyLandSparky said:
Picketing and protesting is a constitutional right. I am not telling you you're not free to vocalize your opinions on employees doing sidework. Have at it.
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there is one major difference....you legally picket legal contractors doing legal work (licensed and insured to boot)

most side work guys are not licensed nor insured...so it's apples to oranges....
 
emahler said:
there is one major difference....you legally picket legal contractors doing legal work (licensed and insured to boot)

most side work guys are not licensed nor insured...so it's apples to oranges....
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Exactly, and the picketing is strictly because they have not bowed to the pressure to join the "club". NO OTHER REASON. It's bull, and for you to stand here telling us that it is ok to do side work (which I agree with just not for you and your ilk) while harrassing legitimate workers just trying to make their living is absolute hogwash.
Lawnguy:
Please come back and defend your positon. Tell us why it is not ok for a legal nonunion shop to operate and therefore you must picket it for some reason. Oh yes because they are nonunion. Even though it is totaly legit, and all the employess choose to work there on their own free will. Tell me why it is up to you to harrass them and slander the company's good name. Then tell us why after a hard day on the picket line, or unemployment line, you and your union thugs can go out and do nonunion sidework that you are stealing from those nonunion contractors that are so bad. Please explain. This will probably be deleted so a PM will be fine. Unless you are too busy inflating giant ballon rats to put in front of construction sites. :rolleyes:

Just to be clear. This is not meant to be a personal attck on you, lawnguy, it is an attempt to help me understand your thinking and how your rationale makes sense. Because to me it it isn't making any at all.
 
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I do sidework!

I do sidework!

I am an EC. And after putting in a 60+ hour week, I have to do a little "sidework"! I do taxes and lawnmower repair,split and sell firewood,cut grass, I cut hair,sharpen scissors,haul junk,sell junk,flip mattresses, I'll back you up in an argument,scare your kids,tell you if you have a live animal under your house,stake up 'mater plants,raise live baits,shine work boots,we have a large selection of plastic milk jugs,consulting,keep your kids otta the road,marriage counseling,sell baseball cards,and a few other things. The economy is not so good! Everyone wants me to do lectric work for em real cheap. I guess cause there are about 90 million illegals here now and since they work for nothing, folks think I should give away my electrical work!!! Talk about "trunk slammers", they will ride up and 5 or 6 will be in the trunk!! Folks say the "dollar is real weak"! I have to agree with them.Gas is real steep!Yep we contractors have to do a little "sidework" too! Oh! In my spare time, I like to do wood carving, kill cats, and hunt and fish!!!
 
one of my neighboring farms is a dairy farm. the owner called me several months ago and said he was having a house on the farm rewired for his migrant workers to live in. he was having the migrant workers do the electrical, and asked me if i could inspect their work to make sure it wouldn't burn down. i politely declined.
 
im sorry if people are mad at me for doing sidework. im going to get liability insurance real soon (within a couple days) and im going to start my business part time at first and make it grow. maybe ill hire some of you someday:grin:
 
aline said:
I love to snowboard, play the guitar, skateboard, mountain bike and spend time with my family. In fact I love doing this stuff so much that I'm willing to do it without pay. I'm willing to pay other people money just so I can do these things. It would be great if I could get paid to do these things but I'm not good enough at any of them so I do electrical work.

I do electrical work so I will have the money to do the things I love. I don't love electrical work and would never pay someone just so I could do it.

I think you guys that love electrical work are crazy. :)

Would you do electrical work for free or pay someone for the opportunity to do electrical work? If not you may not love it as much as you think. :)

If I won the lottery I'd never do electrical work again. I'd do a lot more of the things I love and maybe even find some new things to love. :)
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i love doing electrical work. but i wouldnt do it for free. i love it when i go into a persons house and they have an electrical problem that is making them worried or upset and i fix it in no time and they are jumping for joy. makes my day to make a customer happy.
 
crossman said:
We can look at this from a philosophical perspective, but reality is what pays the bills. Sure, everyone should follow the law. However, when there is very little enforcement of the laws, the benefits of doing side work illegally outweigh the risks.

This is true of anything involving the law. There are some ultra-rich drug dealers out there. Why? Because we don't have enough enforcement or the resolve to make the risks of selling drugs outweigh the benefits.

Sure, there are laws which hot dog vendors have to comply with. But I can guarantee you there are hundreds of illegal taco stands down here in the south.

Anytime you have a niche where money can be made, where the rewards are greater than the risks, you can guarantee that someone will attempt to take advantage of it. It is like Darwin's survival of the fittest. Every viable economic niche will be filled.

So, philosophically, yep, no one should do illegal work. But realistically, every small EC who is competing with that side work better understand that it ain't going away and should develop a plan to adjust to it.

So, is it right? No. Is it reality? Yes. Deal with it accordingly.
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I have read in a thread a while back, that for an EC the way to get out of competition with the trunkslammers is to sart taking on jobs that cannot be done by one person in a reasonable length of time. You know scale it up, take on more commercial type jobs, etc. where you are competing with established businesses and not agains the handyman. I thought that was a pretty good advice. e/m
 
Energy-Miser said:
In Maryland, fortune tellers need to be licensed !
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There are still a lot of incompetent fortue tellers out there. I did a small job for this fortune teller/palm reader and when I handed her the bill she said " I had no idea it would cost so much" and I replied " You must not be very good at your job". She laughed.

I thought everyone already knew that electical service calls were expensive. :grin: :grin:

This is a true story. Couldn't help myself, had to say it.
 
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electricmanscott said:
This is not meant to be a personal attck on you, lawnguy, it is an attempt to help me understand your thinking and how your rationale makes sense. Because to me it it isn't making any at all.
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You'll be waiting a long time if you expect any rationale or logic to come from LawnGuy. There is none. His position is indefensible.
 
Now this is an entirely different subject.

emahler said:
there is one major difference....you legally picket legal contractors doing legal work (licensed and insured to boot)

most side work guys are not licensed nor insured...so it's apples to oranges....
Click to expand...

electricmanscott said:
Exactly, and the picketing is strictly because they have not bowed to the pressure to join the "club". NO OTHER REASON. It's bull, and for you to stand here telling us that it is ok to do side work (which I agree with just not for you and your ilk) while harrassing legitimate workers just trying to make their living is absolute hogwash.
Lawnguy:
Please come back and defend your positon. Tell us why it is not ok for a legal nonunion shop to operate and therefore you must picket it for some reason. Oh yes because they are nonunion. Even though it is totaly legit, and all the employess choose to work there on their own free will. Tell me why it is up to you to harrass them and slander the company's good name. Then tell us why after a hard day on the picket line, or unemployment line, you and your union thugs can go out and do nonunion sidework that you are stealing from those nonunion contractors that are so bad. Please explain. This will probably be deleted so a PM will be fine. Unless you are too busy inflating giant ballon rats to put in front of construction sites. :rolleyes:

Just to be clear. This is not meant to be a personal attck on you, lawnguy, it is an attempt to help me understand your thinking and how your rationale makes sense. Because to me it it isn't making any at all.
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Emahler, protesting has nothing to do with the protested situation being legal or sanctioned. There is a group that goes around the country protesting at the funerals of servicemen. If I, or a group of individuals don't like Starbucks coffee, we could go protest that too.

Electricmanscott, when a nonunion jobsite is picketed, it is done for reasons other than a simple "they wouldn't join the club." Often, a picketed site is also leafletted. It's called an informational picket. If you've ever read the flyers, they typically spell out the situations the protesters are trying to make public.

I can't speak to what it is that makes other minds tick. But for the examples you pointed out, I have to say that generally, employees in a nonunion shop aren't choosing "of their own free will" to work in a nonunion shop. In fact, very little of what they're going through is under their control or on their terms at all.

What you're calling free will I say is more of a necessity, or else starve to death. It's like saying I choose to eat 3 meals a day of my own free will. Or that I'm choosing to breathe air.

Protests or informational pickets do not equate to slander. Though it may be viewed as such to the casual onlooker who is ignorant. But just as a group of individuals has every right to protest a nonunion jobsite or contractor, you too are free to gather your men together and do the same thing when your work is slow.

You could pass out fliers telling the public that these nasty unions have ratios that force helpers to participate in a program that requires them to become journeymen, and how the union workers are denied their right to use free clinics when they're sick or injured on the job. You can protest how the contractor's rights to dictate everthing from starting times to no overtime for working on weekends is being violated by union agreements. You could protest how giving the workers a voice concerning their employment and their industry and future makes the world too loud and annoying.


 
Lawnguy, the topic is about sidework, so I'm not going to address the union vs. nonunion issues you mentioned to keep this thread from being edited or locked.

The bottom line is that you are not allowed to do sidework by IBEW rules unless you are a union contractor hiring union help and paying them union wages. Period, end of story. So you are openly advocating breaking the rules that have been set before you by the IBEW. You have no leg to stand on. You are finished. Your arguments are meaningless.
 
peter d said:
Lawnguy, the topic is about sidework, so I'm not going to address the union vs. nonunion issues you mentioned to keep this thread from being edited or locked.

The bottom line is that you are not allowed to do sidework by IBEW rules unless you are a union contractor hiring union help and paying them union wages. Period, end of story. So you are openly advocating breaking the rules that have been set before you by the IBEW. You have no leg to stand on. You are finished. Your arguments are meaningless.
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Peter, you will not in the course of a few threads, undo the damage done through years of propaganda...it's as simple as that...but keep trying, it's quite entertaining:D
 
Energy-Miser said:
I have read in a thread a while back, that for an EC the way to get out of competition with the trunkslammers is to sart taking on jobs that cannot be done by one person in a reasonable length of time. You know scale it up, take on more commercial type jobs, etc. where you are competing with established businesses and not agains the handyman. I thought that was a pretty good advice. e/m
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It's good advice, but is it realistic? How many E/C's don't want the hassle of employees? How many e/c's aren't capable of doing larger, commercial or industrial jobs? Even on this board, an industrial in-house electrician is scratching his head wondering why the jobs aren't pouring in just because he has a license, an ad in the yellow pages, and some business cards.

How many e/c's went into business without having any real experience working on large projects? Do people really believe a GC or construction management group opens the yellow book, or pulls a business card off the church bullitin board to look for an electrical contractor when they have a 40 story tower to build?

Many a residential electrician, who could rope a McMansion in 16 hours blindfolded has gone on their own only to crash & burn because they never hung a transformer from a deck, never threaded a piece of PVC coated galv, and have no idea how a hammerdrill works. So they're stuck in the residential market which I think everyone can agree is flooded.

Just because you're a good electrician, doesn't mean you're a good businessman and are capable of doing any job, any type, any size.
 
electricalperson said:
im sorry if people are mad at me for doing sidework. im going to get liability insurance real soon (within a couple days) and im going to start my business part time at first and make it grow. maybe ill hire some of you someday:grin:
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I am sure no one on here is mad at you, or anyone else; for doing electrical sidework, what they are trying to do, is give everyone a good insite, of how it impacts the legal small electrical contracting business, and the down sides of it.
 
peter d said:
Lawnguy, the topic is about sidework, so I'm not going to address the union vs. nonunion issues you mentioned to keep this thread from being edited or locked.
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Well, for me I've backed out of the sidework discussion. There are many things that people do on a daily basis that are against policy, against the contract, or against the law. Suffice it to say, I'm not competing with any union contractors, so much like the DA chooses not to prosecute a woman who murders her abusive husband, the IBEW isn't sending any troops out because I snagged a McMansion from a nonunion contractor.

The bottom line is that you are not allowed to do sidework by IBEW rules unless you are a union contractor hiring union help and paying them union wages. Period, end of story. So you are openly advocating breaking the rules that have been set before you by the IBEW. You have no leg to stand on. You are finished. Your arguments are meaningless.
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growler said:
There are still a lot of incompetent fortue tellers out there. I did a small job for this fortune teller/palm reader and when I handed her the bill she said " I had no idea it would cost so much" and I replied " You must not be very good at your job". She laughed.

I thought everyone already knew that electical service calls were expensive. :grin: :grin:

This is a true story. Couldn't help myself, had to say it.
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Did this really happen growler, or you just have a good imagination and are quick with a joke? It was very funny either way. e/m
 
LawnGuyLandSparky said:
the IBEW isn't sending any troops out because I snagged a McMansion from a nonunion contractor.
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Just another one of those little jobs that no other contractors would touch?:grin:
 
LawnGuyLandSparky said:
It's good advice, but is it realistic? How many E/C's don't want the hassle of employees? How many e/c's aren't capable of doing larger, commercial or industrial jobs? Even on this board, an industrial in-house electrician is scratching his head wondering why the jobs aren't pouring in just because he has a license, an ad in the yellow pages, and some business cards.

How many e/c's went into business without having any real experience working on large projects? Do people really believe a GC or construction management group opens the yellow book, or pulls a business card off the church bullitin board to look for an electrical contractor when they have a 40 story tower to build?

Many a residential electrician, who could rope a McMansion in 16 hours blindfolded has gone on their own only to crash & burn because they never hung a transformer from a deck, never threaded a piece of PVC coated galv, and have no idea how a hammerdrill works. So they're stuck in the residential market which I think everyone can agree is flooded.

Just because you're a good electrician, doesn't mean you're a good businessman and are capable of doing any job, any type, any size.
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I disagree in the sense that you can do anything if you plan it and work toward it in a measured and rational way. e/m
 
Energy-Miser said:
Did this really happen growler, or you just have a good imagination and are quick with a joke? It was very funny either way. e/m
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No, this one really happened but the rest of the story isn't quite so funny.
We are all aware of the fortune telling industry so I quess I should have insisted on cash or not gone on the service call at all because the check naturally bounced. Had to go by twice to finally get paid.

I really don't care much for fortune tellers. Some run an honest novelty business but there are a lot of crooks in the industry.
 
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