Siemens AFCI nuisance tripping ...help !

[Stevenfyeager]

I ran 4 new circuits, in an old house, all new wires, new Siemens AFCI breakers. All 4 have been tripping. One Samsung refrig., two countertop outlets, one microwave. In KY, all new circuits must be AFCI. Replaced all 4 new AFCI breakers with new ones. Microwave and ref are working with second new breakers. Now the two kit. countertop ones are tripping AGAIN. I had to surface run the 4 circuits in pvc to a j box, then from there, romex to each separate outlet. I did not share any neutrals, but did use only one ground in the conduit. You think that could be it ?
I mostly work in IN. About to resign my KY license because of AFCI requirements over there. any suggestions ? ? You think I should try AFCI receptacles ? Thank you.

 

[Little Bill]

I ran 4 new circuits, in an old house, all new wires, new Siemens AFCI breakers. All 4 have been tripping. One Samsung refrig., two countertop outlets, one microwave. In KY, all new circuits must be AFCI. Replaced all 4 new AFCI breakers with new ones. Microwave and ref are working with second new breakers. Now the two kit. countertop ones are tripping AGAIN. I had to surface run the 4 circuits in pvc to a j box, then from there, romex to each separate outlet. I did not share any neutrals, but did use only one ground in the conduit. You think that could be it ?
I mostly work in IN. About to resign my KY license because of AFCI requirements over there. any suggestions ? ? You think I should try AFCI receptacles ? Thank you.

Unless the ground (EGC) was touching the neutral somewhere, running a single EGC for the circuits shouldn't cause the tripping.
What is plugged in to the receptacles that are tripping?

 

[ptonsparky]

Neutrals tied to the correct breaker? Neutrals not mistakenly tied together in a j box?

The single EG should be fine.

 

[Stevenfyeager]

Unless the ground (EGC) was touching the neutral somewhere, running a single EGC for the circuits shouldn't cause the tripping.
What is plugged in to the receptacles that are tripping?

when the renters first moved in, their phone charging cords were tripping the new countertop outlets. I replaced breakers with more new ones, that seemed to work. Til now, two months later.
The ref was tripping during the final inspection, he suggested putting another new breaker in, I reluctantly did, (they were brand new, so why try ?) and it has worked fine ever since, (three months or so). Then, later, the two countertop outlets were tripping, I replaced breakers and all was fine til now. A month later, the micro circuit was tripping. I replaced that breaker two weeks ago, it is fine. I will double check the j box to see if I crossed a neutral but I color coded them. I am about to quit my KY license after 20 years, this is the worst job I've had over there. I have had occcasional nuisance AFCI tripping but not every circuit in the job ! Thank you

 

[mopowr steve]

Last week I was doing a rewire and had a AFCI tripping, thought maybe I better check to see if either myself screwing some exterior j-block style boxes or door framer may have screwed into a wire. I re-did a portion and to no avail it still would trip minutes to hours later, I discovered my cordless tool charger was the culprit :rant:

 

[ptonsparky]

Do you have a megger?

 

[growler]

I ran 4 new circuits, in an old house, all new wires, new Siemens AFCI breakers. All 4 have been tripping. One Samsung refrig., two countertop outlets, one microwave. In KY, all new circuits must be AFCI. Replaced all 4 new AFCI breakers with new ones. Microwave and ref are working with second new breakers. Now the two kit. countertop ones are tripping AGAIN. I had to surface run the 4 circuits in pvc to a j box, then from there, romex to each separate outlet. I did not share any neutrals, but did use only one ground in the conduit. You think that could be it ?
I mostly work in IN. About to resign my KY license because of AFCI requirements over there. any suggestions ? ? You think I should try AFCI receptacles ? Thank you.

Steve I think you are over reacting to the situation. Most of us have been dealing with AFCI problems for almost 20 years now. Most states do have AFCI requirements. It's just another problem you have to learn to deal with.

I don't use Seimens breakers if I can avoid it but they do have a trip indicator that will give you some information as to the cause of the trip. What does this trip indicator tell you the reason for the trip is? Over currrent, arc fault, ground fault ?

You changed four breakers and two now work so this would seem to indicate bad breakers on two of them. There may even be a problem with one of the appliances that get plugged into the counter top circuits. If so you get to charge for all this extra trouble shooting because it's not your fault.

Start out with the trip indicator and see what that tells you.

 

[ramsy]

..Start out with the trip indicator and see what that tells you.

Remember the AFCI function is triggered from issues originating on either line or load sides. Not restricted to load side like GFCI's.

Old breakers arcing in fuse box have tripped my AFCI Outlet devices ~50ft away, on different circuits. Remove & inspect all old breakers for damage, clean up or replace.

 

[kwired]

Steve I think you are over reacting to the situation. Most of us have been dealing with AFCI problems for almost 20 years now. Most states do have AFCI requirements. It's just another problem you have to learn to deal with.

I don't use Seimens breakers if I can avoid it but they do have a trip indicator that will give you some information as to the cause of the trip. What does this trip indicator tell you the reason for the trip is? Over currrent, arc fault, ground fault ?

You changed four breakers and two now work so this would seem to indicate bad breakers on two of them. There may even be a problem with one of the appliances that get plugged into the counter top circuits. If so you get to charge for all this extra trouble shooting because it's not your fault.

Start out with the trip indicator and see what that tells you.

I thought he replaced some of the breakers and problem went away but then came back later.

Remember the AFCI function is triggered from issues originating on either line or load sides. Not restricted to load side like GFCI's.

Old breakers arcing in fuse box have tripped my AFCI Outlet devices ~50ft away, on different circuits. Remove & inspect all old breakers for damage, clean up or replace.

Yes, might not be anything wrong on these new circuits but rather something outside of what was installed is causing "interference" in some manner. It happens even on all new construction.

 

[ramsy]

..Yes, might not be anything wrong on these new circuits but rather something outside of what was installed is causing "interference" in some manner. It happens even on all new construction.

Most fuse-box flippers & their monkeys are trained to remove & replace, not understand how stuff works, much less know the right places to look.

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

Do you have a megger?

I agree, start with that.
I last issue I had with an AFCI protected circuit was a pinched neutral to the light socket of a LOL 1004 IC housing J-box cover. The insulation wasn't damaged through to show copper but it was squished real tight.
I believe this could happen in the right conditions with a staple or romex clamp as well.
I know there could be any number of possibilities for a fault but this just one more scenario.

When replacing the circuit breakers I buy them from a different supplier than the first one, in hopes of picking up the CB's from a different lot just in case there is an issue with the CB's.
I know electricians who have gone as far as replacing the whole circuit an they still have issues. Sometime I believe it is environmental, meaning the issue is with whatever the circuit is feeding (try convincing the homeowner or appliance company of that though).
Good luck!

 

[peter d]

I would pay a handyman cash to install regular breakers and call it a day. :thumbsup:

 

[kwired]

I would pay a handyman cash to install regular breakers and call it a day. :thumbsup:

In true HO or handyman spirit, make sure that it is a 30 amp breaker also

 

[ramsy]

I would pay a handyman cash to install regular breakers and call it a day. :thumbsup:

Next time your clients have AFCI trouble, I'll take your money and fix it over the phone.

I'll even throw in the special bonus of fixing it without voiding your clients' property insurance, nor Workers-Comp. Fraud, which my State-License Board reports occurs with 50% of all licensed contractors in all categories.

 

[peter d]

Next time your clients have AFCI trouble, I'll take your money and fix it over the phone.

I'll even throw in the special bonus of fixing it without voiding your clients' property insurance, nor Workers-Comp. Fraud, which my State-License Board reports occurs with 50% of all licensed contractors in all categories.

Cool story bro.

 

[peter d]

In true HO or handyman spirit, make sure that it is a 30 amp breaker also

:roll::roll:

 

[Stevenfyeager]

Do you have a megger?

yes I have one, but I don't know really how to use it here. ( I've only had to use it once on a heated floor testing that was required by the manufacturer.)

 

[Little Bill]

Do you have a megger?

yes I have one, but I don't know really how to use it here. ( I've only had to use it once on a heated floor testing that was required by the manufacturer.)

Unplug everything from the circuit(s), if there are GFCI receptacles, take them out, take the EGC and neutral loose at the panel, then meg test between neutral and EGC.

 

[romex jockey]

Unplug everything from the circuit(s), if there are GFCI receptacles, take them out, take the EGC and neutral loose at the panel, then meg test between neutral and EGC.

I've found a few with a simple ohm meter.....

~RJ~

 

[ptonsparky]

RJs right, start with your ohm, or continuity tester and then move up to the megger. Repeat the same steps you did with the tester.

Reading the Fine Manual is the 1st step though.