So. How do you all feel about EVERYTHING you install now, being Made in China?

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Besoeker said:
I suspect that it may be the reverse.
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I don't know about that....

I live in a town that has many factories that make car parts. I worked at one that had five plants. Nissan and Toyota were huge accounts, we made almost as many parts for them as we did Ford and GM.

Look on any Honda, Nissan or VW and you will probably find that the plastic door handles were made here in Michigan by ADAC, they were right next door to our main aluminum die cast plant.

I have been in many factories in my trade and what I saw was that if throttle bodies were being made, they were being made for many different car manufacturers and not all were US brands.

The camshafts for Toyota Camry, Tundra and Corolla are made by CWC Textron here in Muskegon, Michigan.

Nissan's Leaf has rear view mirrors made in Zeeland, Michigan by Gentex.

There are hundreds, if not thousands of medium sized businesses making parts for cars of every make here in the US. The above is just a small sampling of near by businesses.
 
Right on Marky
Where I grew in in Battle Creek MI, we now have a lot of companies that make car parts, Denso is one - they are Japanese. Denso does not let the managers stay overseas (here) for more than a few years otherwise they like living here too much and don't want to go back
 
fyi, if you want a new tape measure, i cannot speak for Klein, but Stanely's Fat Max is made in USA as are only Carhartts orange jeans, everything else they make is not US. Milwaukee's tape measure is made in china. Boxes, still us. romex, stuff that is going inside the walls still US as well as Halo's and Junos, as far as i know, so at least on rough-ins we are all US. surprised someone didn't point that out already.
 
Fulthrotl said:
everyone shops by price, including some of our customers, to see if they can get it done cheaper
by someone other than us. and usually they can. so they do.

that being said, i don't shop at home unless i have no choice.
and i don't like buying material and tools. i wasn't aware that
there is not a single thread gauge in all of china until i started trying
to use stuff they have threaded. it doesn't fit, and oftentimes is garbage.

it all comes down to peasant skills and a peasant mentality. and we are building
a peasant society, one failed fitting at a time. semi skilled peasants with mediocre
skills at best, installing shoddy, poorly fitting equipment.

i think it's great. it gives the people i don't want as customers anyway, someone
to turn to and try to chisel $28 off of a $600 bill.

and i'll take my chances with my skill set, and work ethic against people charging
a third of what i charge, for work.
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Well said sir!!

This is my thinking and model too. Good work, good skill, good pay or go to a bottom feeder.
Many times they come back. The $40 per hour guy took 3 hours to do a 1 hour job. Sounds like a deal to me!!:lol:
I hate made in china crap. I NEVER go to wall mart. When I Put up a motion light or photo cell, I go to great lengths to tell the customer that they will likely be see me again soon.
 
yeah but...........as far as outdoor stuff goes too, i used to count on buying something at the supply houses that was US. like Hubbell, and other light mfgs. but now sadly, even they are offshoring. so yeah, i don't guarantee anything from china because that means i come back for free. some of my customers are an hour away. do i get to eat two hours of travel PLUS the time it takes to R&R some stupid light fixture? My customers who are home owners understand. The guy i am having trouble with is a general contractor. He seems to think I can put up anything and everything in ten or fifteen minutes like we used to. Doesn't get it! i have even seen total junk make by Lithonia that i bought at HD, granted, but still, Lithonia. a florescent closet light that i noticed said to install only over existing box and not rated for use as a jbox, AFTER i already installed it over a whip (little label on the inside of the light). i couldn't believe it. been saving that label for about a year now so i can write them another "love letter", model no. 3324 Wrap Lite. Don't know where it was made, but what a pile! This same general had me put up a six lamp vanity light last mission. well 5 lit one didn't!!. since he cried about how long the last night mare took and didn't want to pay, i just told him 'the light is defective, when you return it (either he or the homeowner bought it), i'll come back and re-install it'. he thinks there is a loose wire behind there. i guess maybe i should have checked it, but as far as i am concerned, if all the wires were not connected (all the wire nuts back there DID have black tape wrapped around them) then it WAS defective.
 
bullheimer said:
yeah but...........as far as outdoor stuff goes too, i used to count on buying something at the supply houses that was US. like Hubbell, and other light mfgs. but now sadly, even they are offshoring. so yeah, i don't guarantee anything from china because that means i come back for free. some of my customers are an hour away. do i get to eat two hours of travel PLUS the time it takes to R&R some stupid light fixture? My customers who are home owners understand. The guy i am having trouble with is a general contractor. He seems to think I can put up anything and everything in ten or fifteen minutes like we used to. Doesn't get it! i have even seen total junk make by Lithonia that i bought at HD, granted, but still, Lithonia. a florescent closet light that i noticed said to install only over existing box and not rated for use as a jbox, AFTER i already installed it over a whip (little label on the inside of the light). i couldn't believe it. been saving that label for about a year now so i can write them another "love letter", model no. 3324 Wrap Lite. Don't know where it was made, but what a pile! This same general had me put up a six lamp vanity light last mission. well 5 lit one didn't!!. since he cried about how long the last night mare took and didn't want to pay, i just told him 'the light is defective, when you return it (either he or the homeowner bought it), i'll come back and re-install it'. he thinks there is a loose wire behind there. i guess maybe i should have checked it, but as far as i am concerned, if all the wires were not connected (all the wire nuts back there DID have black tape wrapped around them) then it WAS defective.
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Good luck with Lithonia.

I had a light fail after a few weeks of use. Of course, it had to be dealt with in freezing rain and snow, and was pole mounted. That was the first time I noticed that the unit was made in China. I was PO'd. I sent them an e-mail and they never bothered to respond.

Lithonia means cheap Chinese junk to me, now.
 
want to say that i saw all the boxes of Leviton devices at ho depo today were all sporting a Made in USA label on them. and the Cooper outlet i put in today said Eaton, Made in USA
OH YEah, unbelieveably i bought a Milwaukee Hole Saw today and they were all made in US
 
I've never been a proponent of buying foreign made products but that's not to say that I never have. In fact, I still do to some degree. Let me explain. I believe this problem begins with the manufacturer. Granted they all want to make a product that we all can't bear to live without and are willing to pay any price for. But, that's not reality.

Let's take a product like wire nuts, and let's look specifically at 3-M red wire nuts with the yellow skirt like these shown on E-Bay : http://www.ebay.com/itm/3M-100-Pack...027?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item46376b7963 . You'll see that they're $19.50/100 box. That comes out to $97.50/500 bag (I believe they're about $85.00 at the supply house). You have to ask yourself if it's worth buying these connectors and paying almost $100/bag or buy yellow, red, tan or green wire nuts at say Barnett in FL at $17.00/500 count bag. I'm all for buying American but is 3-M trying to recoup their R&D costs by trying to go to Hawaii on every sale?

Take a look at the cost of GFCI receptacles. If I need one or two I'm going to my supply house and buying a P&S or Cooper device and paying $12.00-$15.00 per unit. However, if I land a job doing the electrical work for a 500 unit nursing home I'm buying from an on-line company like Barnett and paying $7.00/receptacle. If you figure only one GFCI per unit I just saved $4000.00. That's the reason contractors are buying Chi-Com products.

Let's get the word out to the manufacturers to make better products and not look to make a killing on each sale and we can bring production back to the US.
 
goldstar said:
Let's get the word out to the manufacturers to make better products and not look to make a killing on each sale and we can bring production back to the US.
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Sure; all they have to do is sell their products for less than it costs to make them. But they can make it up in volume, right? :D
 
ggunn said:
Sure; all they have to do is sell their products for less than it costs to make them. But they can make it up in volume, right? :D
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Well, maybe so but in all fairness do you think a 500 ct. bag of red wire nuts is worth $85.00 ? All I'm suggesting is that they don't try to hit a home run on every pitch. Can you imagine how much work you wouldn't get if you tried to get $5000.00 for a simple 200 amp service upgrade just because you believe that you can do it better than the next guy ?

Another problem small supply houses have is that they can't buy in the quantities that stores like HD can. In turn you will not be able to buy at a lower price. A 250' coil of 14/2 NM cable costs me $10.00 more at my local supply house than is does at HD. Buying that type of wire at HD is a no-brainer. And, if I have to buy a lot of it I buy it at a store that's in an enterprise zone and pay half the NJ sales tax.

Bring prices back to reality:thumbsup:
 
I just thought of another example of US mfrs. over-charging for their products. Let's look at a hydraulic punch set [1/2" to 2"]. If you buy a set from your local supply house or even an on-line store you're in the $600.00 area. I bought a set from Harbor Freight for under $100.00. The $100.00 set is made by the Chi-Coms, it's sharp, it works great and if someone steals it off a job site, oh well, I'll buy another one. If you lose a Greenlee $600.00 one. It really hurts. I'd have to lose 6 of the Harbor Freight ones to experience the same feeling.

So, my question : Is the Greenly one really worth $600.00 or is that what they think the market will bear ?
 
goldstar said:
I just thought of another example of US mfrs. over-charging for their products. Let's look at a hydraulic punch set [1/2" to 2"]. If you buy a set from your local supply house or even an on-line store you're in the $600.00 area. I bought a set from Harbor Freight for under $100.00. The $100.00 set is made by the Chi-Coms, it's sharp, it works great and if someone steals it off a job site, oh well, I'll buy another one. If you lose a Greenlee $600.00 one. It really hurts. I'd have to lose 6 of the Harbor Freight ones to experience the same feeling.

So, my question : Is the Greenly one really worth $600.00 or is that what they think the market will bear ?
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That's a tough question, and one I ask often when buying power tools or more expensive tools in general. We're not the only ones asking that question, which is why there are so many guys doing tool and test equipment teardowns on youtube. From the teardown videos I've watched, whether they were DMMs, battery tools or even bench grinders, the result is generally the same - cheap and Chinese equals a bad investment.
 
I'm disputing that. The point I was trying to make is that when you have a $500.00 disparity on a tool like a hydraulic punch a lot of electricians (especially the small shops) would be willing to buy six of the Harbor Freight punch sets over the course of several years before they lay out $600.00 for the Greenlee one.

Several years ago I purchased a Fein Multi-master vibrating saw for about $400.00. Worth every penny and I have no regrets. When I'm busy I probably use it 4 or 5 times a week. Harbor Freight is now selling a similar unit for under $100.00. Definitely nowhere near the quality of a Fein but I might have considered buying one if it had been available at the time I purchased the Fein just to save $300.00+ dollars.

They're making it so attractive in price that it's difficult to look the other way.
 
goldstar said:
I'm disputing that. The point I was trying to make is that when you have a $500.00 disparity on a tool like a hydraulic punch a lot of electricians (especially the small shops) would be willing to buy six of the Harbor Freight punch sets over the course of several years before they lay out $600.00 for the Greenlee one.

Several years ago I purchased a Fein Multi-master vibrating saw for about $400.00. Worth every penny and I have no regrets. When I'm busy I probably use it 4 or 5 times a week. Harbor Freight is now selling a similar unit for under $100.00. Definitely nowhere near the quality of a Fein but I might have considered buying one if it had been available at the time I purchased the Fein just to save $300.00+ dollars.

They're making it so attractive in price that it's difficult to look the other way.
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I totally get that. If I needed a KO set for one job I'd probably go with the cheap one. If I were using it on a daily basis I'd go for the Greenlee. My brother still has the Greenlee KO set our dad bought back in the 60s and it still works fine. If fact, he got almost all our dad's tools. Hmm... how did that happen? ;)
 
goldstar said:
I just thought of another example of US mfrs. over-charging for their products. Let's look at a hydraulic punch set [1/2" to 2"]. If you buy a set from your local supply house or even an on-line store you're in the $600.00 area. I bought a set from Harbor Freight for under $100.00. The $100.00 set is made by the Chi-Coms, it's sharp, it works great and if someone steals it off a job site, oh well, I'll buy another one. If you lose a Greenlee $600.00 one. It really hurts. I'd have to lose 6 of the Harbor Freight ones to experience the same feeling.

So, my question : Is the Greenly one really worth $600.00 or is that what they think the market will bear ?
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There are three answers to that question. First, of course the MSRP of an item is determined at least in part by what the market will bear.

But second, without any knowledge of what the production and distribution costs are associated with that item it isn't possible to know what profit margin is built into the price.

And third (which is really a question), is the Greenlee version of this product 6X as good as the Chinese version? The decision of which one to buy should be based on the answer.

As long as buyers base their decision of which products to buy on the selling price alone, and as long as the production and distribution costs associated with items made in China are so much lower than they are here in the US, Chinese made products will have an advantage in the marketplace. Keep in mind that it is our countrymen who are making this possible by moving their factories overseas and importing those products into the US market, and they are making a lot of money doing it.
 
PetrosA said:
I totally get that. If I needed a KO set for one job I'd probably go with the cheap one. If I were using it on a daily basis I'd go for the Greenlee. My brother still has the Greenlee KO set our dad bought back in the 60s and it still works fine. If fact, he got almost all our dad's tools. Hmm... how did that happen? ;)
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I guess we know who the favorite one was ;)
 
ggunn said:
There are three answers to that question. First, of course the MSRP of an item is determined at least in part by what the market will bear.
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I agree. If Greenlee was the only punch set available and I really wanted one and could justify buying one I would

But second, without any knowledge of what the production and distribution costs are associated with that item it isn't possible to know what profit margin is built into the price.
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Granted, we do not know what the profit margin on this item. However, if you look at their ratchet punch version it runs about $200.00. You have to ask yourself if the hydraulics are worth the extra $400.00.

And third (which is really a question), is the Greenlee version of this product 6X as good as the Chinese version? The decision of which one to buy should be based on the answer.
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If I were doing heavy commercial or industrial work on a regular basis I would probably buy the Greenlee. However, if I were running six crews where expensive tools seem to disappear on a regular basis I'm buying six of the Chi-Com versions.

As long as buyers base their decision of which products to buy on the selling price alone, and as long as the production and distribution costs associated with items made in China are so much lower than they are here in the US, Chinese made products will have an advantage in the marketplace. Keep in mind that it is our countrymen who are making this possible by moving their factories overseas and importing those products into the US market, and they are making a lot of money doing it.
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No doubt about it!
 
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