So why is it called a 3-way (or a 4-way)?

[kwired]

But that media arrived at the valve via a path that is different from the two it can take as it leaves the valve. There are three "ways" fluid can flow: In, Out-to-the-left, and Out-to-the-right.

In a three way valve doesn't the media only flow one path? Switch it and it flows the other. Now a 4 way valve can have two different paths after switching there is still only two paths but the source of each has been alternated. Similar situation with three way and 4 way switches.

If you are stopped in the middle there is potentially three different ways to go. But electric current or hydraulic media does not stop in the middle and then have a choice to go any of the three possible directions. The direction it came from is likely not even possible to go back because of voltage or pressure so that leaves only two ways to go from this point.


Still makes no sense why the names are what they are.

If you have had some training and experience in hydraulics you would find that it's not that confusing.

I remember starting out as a maint. tech in a foundry that a bunch of presses. Looking at the hydraulic schematics was like looking at hieroglyphics. I had a grumpy boss that knew all about the valves and started teaching me about them. I also went to Parker-Hannefin's course on industrial hydraulics. After that, I could look at the schematics and know exactly what I was looking at.

It's really not rocket surgery.

I don't really find the hydraulics valves that confusing, just the reasoning for the names 3 way and 4 way, just like for switches.

 

[480sparky]

My favorite explanation: It's a SPDT switch with three 'ways' it can be used:

Connect common to terminals on left, Connect common to terminals on right, and Off (shown)

 

[mivey]

My favorite explanation: It's a SPDT switch with three 'ways' it can be used:

Connect common to terminals on left, Connect common to terminals on right, and Off (shown)

Got one for the 4-way?

 

[K8MHZ]

Got one for the 4-way?

:thumbsup:


. .

 

[K8MHZ]

post #5. Yes...



Can we talk about switches in a run now? eg. system?

Actually can you talk.............I'll listen...........?

That may be a good subject for another thread.

I have a method of wiring 3 and 4 way switches that eliminates almost all the confusion. They don't have to be in a row and they can be fed from any switch.

Is that what you are looking for, different ways to run wire to these multi-switch systems?

I need the practice, too, since now I have to pull a neutral to all the boxes and want to make sure my method doesn't need amendment, just an extra conductor.

 

[ritelec]

That may be a good subject for another thread.

I have a method of wiring 3 and 4 way switches that eliminates almost all the confusion. They don't have to be in a row and they can be fed from any switch.

Is that what you are looking for, different ways to run wire to these multi-switch systems?

I need the practice, too, since now I have to pull a neutral to all the boxes and want to make sure my method doesn't need amendment, just an extra conductor.

Was thinking about another thread.....but I understand what it is, just not the rational of why it would be called 3 way, 4 way , 5 way, 6 way... maybe it also has to do with the point being fed?

2-switches 1-light outlet = the 3?....3-switches 1 light outlet = the 4???

Am I looking for different ways to wire multi-switch systems? Thanks, I'm ok with it...... but as you mentioned, that whole neutral at each switch location thing???? That's going to me interesting.

New type of wire? (but don't they already make a nm white-blk-red-blu)........

 

[K8MHZ]

Was thinking about another thread.....but I understand what it is, just not the rational of why it would be called 3 way, 4 way , 5 way, 6 way... maybe it also has to do with the point being fed?

2-switches 1-light outlet = the 3?....3-switches 1 light outlet = the 4???

Am I looking for different ways to wire multi-switch systems? Thanks, I'm ok with it...... but as you mentioned, that whole neutral at each switch location thing???? That's going to me interesting.

New type of wire? (but don't they already make a nm white-blk-red-blu)........

Maybe I'm not understanding you. Who calls multi-switch circuits 5 way, 6 way, etc.? I have never heard them referred to in that manner.

 

[ritelec]

Just wanted to add........
The new code would require a neutral at each switch location.

So as far as wiring methods for a 3 or 4 way system using 3 wire... the neutral would have to get fed through from your first 3 way box to your last 3 way box........You wouldn't be able to bring the
return back to your first 3 way box without using a 4 wire nm cable.

I'm not too familiar with the new switching that's coming out..but as they require a neutral and is the reason for this code change..... do they not also require a hot????
Can theses new switches be installed in a switch box where a neutral is present in that switch box but you only have travelers at that location......???

Maybe they will start making 5 wire nm cable with ground..............................
Maybe 5 wire nm with a ground and an isolated ground..................................
Maybe 5 wire nm with a ground and an isolated ground that comes with a toy surprise like cracker jacks (but not those cheap surprises like they come with now)...............maybe with something like a like a cool compass or mood ring or laser level!!!!

 

[kwired]

I looking for different ways to wire multi-switch systems? Thanks, I'm ok with it...... but as you mentioned, that whole neutral at each switch location thing???? That's going to me interesting.

Different method - not so out of ordinary but not common for lighting - multi station start - stop buttons and contactor with holding contact.

Still need same number of wires run to all of the stations though. Could do it with low voltage though. Shouldn't reqire a neutral either - I would think, maybe they still would want a control circuit common or L2.

 

[K8MHZ]

New type of wire? (but don't they already make a nm white-blk-red-blu)........

Yep, now you can get NM-B with an extra neutral.

 

[K8MHZ]

Just wanted to add........
The new code would require a neutral at each switch location.

So as far as wiring methods for a 3 or 4 way system using 3 wire... the neutral would have to get fed through from your first 3 way box to your last 3 way box........You wouldn't be able to bring the
return back to your first 3 way box without using a 4 wire nm cable.

I'm not too familiar with the new switching that's coming out..but as they require a neutral and is the reason for this code change..... do they not also require a hot????
Can theses new switches be installed in a switch box where a neutral is present in that switch box but you only have travelers at that location......???

As I stated, you can have any box be your first from the breaker if you know how to wire with alternative methods.

The requirement for the neutral in every box is because of electronic sensing and switching that used the ECG as the return to the panel, instead of a neutral.

As for requiring a hot, how would it be that there would not be at least one live conductor in each switch box?

 

[ritelec]

Maybe I'm not understanding you. Who calls multi-switch circuits 5 way, 6 way, etc.? I have never heard them referred to in that manner.

One lighting outlet controlled by 4 locations or 5 or 6 .............what would you call it?


I'm asking???

 

[GeorgeB]

I'm a fluid power guy, and a 3-way valve takes one port (pressure/flow) and directs it to one of 2 ports. A 4-way valve takes 2 ports (pressure/tank with hydraulics, pressure/exhaust with pneumatics) and directs them to 2 ports (often identified C1/C2 or A/B), allowing, among other things, directional control of a cylinder or hydraulic motor.

The German description of these "directional valves" is wegeventil which translates to way valve ... and pre-dates, I think, our switches. Perhaps from this physical system?

 

[ritelec]

As for requiring a hot, how would it be that there would not be at least one live conductor in each switch box?

You would have a hot........but not necessarily the same one all the time.

 

[K8MHZ]

You would have a hot........but not necessarily the same one all the time.

Devices designed for use in multi-switch systems take that into consideration and have places to land both travellers. Devices not designed so will have the info in the instructions (like not for use with mult-wire switches). The lion's share of these devices are occupancy sensors made to replace a single switch.

 

[K8MHZ]

From an early 'teens Arrow-Hart catalog:

Before I forget, thanks! That's great info.

 

[ritelec]

Devices designed for use in multi-switch systems take that into consideration and have places to land both travellers. Devices not designed so will have the info in the instructions (like not for use with mult-wire switches). The lion's share of these devices are occupancy sensors made to replace a single switch.

Thanks :thumbsup:


(they don't come with a toy surprise do they??? :happyno

 

[K8MHZ]

One lighting outlet controlled by 4 locations or 5 or 6 .............what would you call it?


I'm asking???

In everyday language, a light with X number of switches. We don't change the configuration of the outlet based upon the number of switches controlling it, so there is no need to re-name it.

I still don't know where you are getting your 'system' names from. We don't refer to lighting circuit switch points as 'ways', since that word has already been taken to mean 'terminals'.

Can you show me on a print referring to a light circuit as a (insert number here) way system based upon the number of switch locations?

 

[K8MHZ]

Thanks :thumbsup:


(they don't come with a toy surprise do they??? :happyno

Usually the surprise is that they won't work on the type of light the customer has, usually a light that the customer is subsequently is in love with and can't live without. :rant:

 

[K8MHZ]

And, just to add some more food for thought.......

It is possible to use a 4-way switch as a 3-way switch by jumpering two terminals. What is the switch to be called now? Is it still a 4-way, or is it now a 3-way?