solar vs wind power

[ty]

I know about solar today and have read that several times. I am curious as to what online courses are approved as good courses? Just because it is online does not make it a reputable course..

Oh, and I believe Solar Energy International has on-line courses.

 

[SeanD]

I hate to say it but NABCEP (North American Board of Certified Energy Practitioners) certification might not be a bad place to start for someone looking to get into the industry. They have entry level type courses.

If John Wiles is ever in your neighborhood take the time to hear one of his talks.

 

[cschmid]

In My State, an online course would not count for any approval.
It would be for your own knowledge.
In my State, to be approved, one of the requirements is a hands on school.

Have you looked into your local ASES Chapter?

I will check it out later tonight

I hate to say it but NABCEP (North American Board of Certified Energy Practitioners) certification might not be a bad place to start for someone looking to get into the industry. They have entry level type courses.

If John Wiles is ever in your neighborhood take the time to hear one of his talks.

I will also check it out as well

 

[cschmid]

Anybody in wind energy here...

 

[ty]

I hate to say it but NABCEP

enough said

 

[cschmid]

Now I remember why I was hesitant last time..the price of the classes are high..must research more gotta be a more affordable way to do this..

I have the study guide and am a master electrician why should it cost me an arm and an leg to get certified..

 

[ohmhead]

Well our company has gone green we now install solar power for commercial this is a picture i took today its our own shop.

And it keeps our guys busy !

It feeds the training building and our prefab shop and the bone yard just installed no problems yet but since our own electricians did it i guess we wont have any issues .

I do miss the extra parking spaces but were saven the cash on the electric so its ok .

I have alot of faith in my co workers .

 

[ty]

Well our company has gone green we now install solar power for commercial this is a picture i took today its our own shop.

And it keeps our guys busy !

It feeds the training building and our prefab shop and the bone yard just installed no problems yet but since our own electricians did it i guess we wont have any issues .

I do miss the extra parking spaces but were saven the cash on the electric so its ok .

I have alot of faith in my co workers .

It is very hard to tell from the pic angle, but
how far apart are the arrays??
They look too close together.

What is the height of each array?

 

[ohmhead]

Well hows this view better?

Ill give you a exact measurement friday when i return to the shop then ill tell our solar crew to rip it out and move all just give me a distance your happy with ?

Time was 6 pm looking north / east did you know when its cloudy we still get sun burned in florida.

 

[ty]

Ill give you a exact measurement friday when i return to the shop then ill tell our solar crew to rip it out and move all just give me a distance your happy with ?

Time was 6 pm looking north / east did you know when its cloudy we still get sun burned in florida.

The distance should be 3x the height.
If your first array is, for example 8ft tall to the highest point, then your next array should be 24 ft back to the bottom of the next array.

It's not my array, so it doesn't matter to me, but i would bet there is shading on each array caused by the one in front, collectively.
This in turn is probably affecting the overall output of the system.

Is each bottom row wired as a string, and each top row wired as a string? This would help the output until the sun got high enough.

As a matter of fact, I just lookad at the picture again. It is plainly visible that each array is shading the bottom row of each array collectively.

I guarantee that system is not producing to its full potential.


And, yes. I believe you still got sunburned. I travel to Florida, alot. (not far from you in Lake Mary, and Sanford)
Clouds dont prevent sunburn.

 

[SeanD]

ty, The distance apart is dependent on what latitude (geographic location) your installation is at.

Here in northern CA, I like to have about 2x height between arrays.

There is no way you can guarantee that the system isn't producing maximum production. There are just too many variables to consider. If I assume that this is a recent photo the shading we can see that is caused by the other arrays isn't bad. Especially if you consider that it is at the end of the day in the middle of winter.

Consider this, if the space available would allow for one extra array if you moved them closer together and this only created minimal shading in the mid winter, why wouldn't you install the extra array. Most of the year your power production much greater than the minor lose during mid winter. This is especially true, with the size of the arrays ohmhead's company installed.

What type of mods did you guys use? They look like Sharp to me. Assuming they are 200 W mods you are looking at a 5.6kW DC Array.

 

[ty]

ty, The distance apart is dependent on what latitude (geographic location) your installation is at.

Here in northern CA, I like to have about 2x height between arrays.

He is in Orlando.

If you want the formula (maybe you know it) it is d= h/(tan a)

There is no way you can guarantee that the system isn't producing maximum production. There are just too many variables to consider.

Sure I can.
But because of the variables, I can't tall how much. it might be little, might be alot. I would have to be on that site and take measurements.

If I assume that this is a recent photo the shading we can see that is caused by the other arrays isn't bad. Especially if you consider that it is at the end of the day in the middle of winter.

This was in November, not the middle of winter.

Consider this, if the space available would allow for one extra array if you moved them closer together and this only created minimal shading in the mid winter, why wouldn't you install the extra array. Most of the year your power production much greater than the minor lose during mid winter. This is especially true, with the size of the arrays ohmhead's company installed.

Money, and the cost difference.
I don't see it as a minor loss. Again, this isn't mid winter during photo.
Moving them 3 ft more apart could have made a difference.
There are at least 6 or more modules per array that are shaded. By the photo alone, we cannot tell the time length of shading.
Depending on how each array is wired (we do not know this either, I asked though), it is possible that 90% of each array is not producing any output.

What type of mods did you guys use? They look like Sharp to me. Assuming they are 200 W mods you are looking at a 5.6kW DC Array.

We use different Mod's.
Those look like Solar World 165 or 175 to me.
So @ 4.9kW DC each array at STS
Total of 44kW DC @STS.

 

[wawireguy]

If you live in snow country and install solar you are brave, crazy or both. Solar takes sun to work. Lets take the NW for example. You can have 200 or so over cast days a year along with short days in the winter. Then you have to take into account the 2' of snow on your roof that you HAVE to get off or you are going to have roof damage or collapse. Factor in rows of solar panels. Maybe you have a super strong roof so you let the snow pile up on your solar panels. Now the snow starts melting and freezing. Breaks fittings, cracks panels. Shifting snow pulls cables loose. Don't see them being used unless you can replace your roofing with them and they can take shoveling snow along with people standing on them.

 

[cschmid]

If you live in snow country and install solar you are brave, crazy or both. Solar takes sun to work. Lets take the NW for example. You can have 200 or so over cast days a year along with short days in the winter. Then you have to take into account the 2' of snow on your roof that you HAVE to get off or you are going to have roof damage or collapse. Factor in rows of solar panels. Maybe you have a super strong roof so you let the snow pile up on your solar panels. Now the snow starts melting and freezing. Breaks fittings, cracks panels. Shifting snow pulls cables loose. Don't see them being used unless you can replace your roofing with them and they can take shoveling snow along with people standing on them.

why would you install it that way..you would need to put it on a rotating axis and install on the ground..this time of year they would be just about vertical so shoveling snow is no problem and there is an amazingly lot of sunny days in a normal winter in the north country.

 

[SeanD]

Ty

Whatever, I tend to stick to what I know, not make assumptions. The date of the photo is unreliable because 11/01/2010 hasn't happened yet so you don't know when it was taken.

I find it interesting you want to harp on the spacing but don't say anything about the pitch (A little steep maybe). I didn't say anything initially because I don't know enough about the way Florida's rebate program works or about the customers needs. Not to mention orientation (I can make an educated guess but that would be an assumption) to really make a comment. All of which would make a difference in the pitch you would choose.

The sum of what we don't know about this system is greater than what we do know. They could be using micro-inverters, then the shading really wouldn't matter.

Frankly, from my experience in construction, assumptions come back to bite you and it is typically expensive.

 

[ty]

Ty

Whatever, I tend to stick to what I know, not make assumptions. The date of the photo is unreliable because 11/01/2010 hasn't happened yet so you don't know when it was taken.

I find it interesting you want to harp on the spacing but don't say anything about the pitch (A little steep maybe). I didn't say anything initially because I don't know enough about the way Florida's rebate program works or about the customers needs. Not to mention orientation (I can make an educated guess but that would be an assumption) to really make a comment. All of which would make a difference in the pitch you would choose.

The sum of what we don't know about this system is greater than what we do know. They could be using micro-inverters, then the shading really wouldn't matter.

Frankly, from my experience in construction, assumptions come back to bite you and it is typically expensive.

Didn't even get to the pitch, but I don't think it is awefully steep. I can't tell by the picture the exact pitch. I don't think this array's pitch is as bad as the shading.

You are right, they could be using micro inverters. It would make a difference, that's why I asked how the strings were wired.
A little more insight would be helpful.

But, looking at the picture (it is all there is to go on right now), I stand by my statements.
I can assume anything with this picture, and it doesn't affect me at all. It's arguments sake on a forum and I sometimes like the taste of crow
It's no worries, it's all for the sake of learning, and you could be 100% correct. How much did it cost me?

I guess the date is supposed to be Jan 11, 2010 then.

There is no way to tell azimuth from this photo. I agree it would be a guess.

 

[SeanD]

No worries,

You were on the right track with asking about the stringing and I would definitely have strung the system to minimize the effect of shading.

The reality is with all the information about this system we could discover your concerns are dead on. But there are so many ways of looking at optimal performance it can be misleading. Are we optimizing for Summer? Winter or Overall production? Or are we optimizing for a customers specific load needs? What is the POCO's rate structure? Do aesthetics matter? All of this matters.

I can design a system for a house were the modules are 1 inch off the roof at an 18 degree pitch and paint the DC conduit on the roof black to match the composite shingle roofing. Then some guy who just got his NABCEP certification comes along and assumes I know nothing about designing a solar systems because there is no way the system will perform optimally (For all those not familiar with solar high temps are bad for production).

The reality is I won the job because I recognized that while the husband wanted a new toy, the boss(his wife) was concerned about the aesthetics and wasn't worried about paying a little bit more to get a system that looks good and meets their energy needs.

Alright, I'll get off my soap box now.

 

[ty]

What mounting system do you use on a residential shingle roof?
We typically use Flat Jacks.

edit:
BTW, I'm not completely sold on NABCEP.

 

[SeanD]

Definitely, Flat Jacks on comp.

 

[ohmhead]

Well if you look at the time it was 6 pm sunset there is no shading during the day also the ground is at a pitch to the south .

As far as the date its a thing we do its a new digital camera sorry never let me set a date in a camera ever . The month of jan the 11 day is the day and i think its 2010 now . We have only that tiny bit of shade at the end of the day and at the first lite in the morning ill get you a better shot friday .


At that point your not going to get any sun anyway .

I myself only do industrial & commercial work our shop has a crew that just does solar power only but ill find out the specs for your info i just put the picture on to show how one can save money .

Think angle and pitch and space to earth in florida its kinda full sun all day on the glass . We cant help it when the sun goes down or comes up . i dont work at the shop in fact i work 154 miles away during the week so give me some time and ill photo it at each hour to solve this issue .