solar vs wind power

[ty]

Definitely, Flat Jacks on comp.

Do you use their railing system?
Or have you ever used it?

 

[SeanD]

I hadn't heard about they had a rail system. We are using various Uni-rac products depending on what we are doing.

 

[ty]

We used the TTIrailing on a job. This was an 8kW roofmount array.
In concept I like their railing. It would probably be fine on a small array, or one that had alot of spaces. The time we used it, made the install more difficult.
Their rails have one cap that covers the seams and holds down all of the modules in a row.
Unlike the Uni Rack system that has hold down clips.

The finished job looks much better than uni rack, but the install was more difficult.

 

[SeanD]

I took a look at TTI. Uni-Rac actually has a product very similar to it called SunFrame which we use quite often. TTI has an interesting solar float system, I imagine it would be a whole lot of fun to install.

 

[ty]

Here's a small array that we did installed with the TTI railing:

 

[cschmid]

You are talking about heat being a bad thing in solar collecting..yet the design generates heat does it not? and what type of temps are we talking? you also taked about different wiring methods for arrays can you elaborate?

 

[ty]

You are talking about heat being a bad thing in solar collecting..yet the design generates heat does it not?

yes, and yes.

and what type of temps are we talking?

there are many factors to concider.
One test we did based on irradiance alone on a typical sunny daywith some clouds were:
43deg C at 875 Irradiance (more clouds)
45.8deg C at 891 Irradiance (less clouds)
This was the Module temp.

you also taked about different wiring methods for arrays can you elaborate?

Talking about string wiring and affects due to shading.
Strings are wired in series. So are cells in each module. Shading one or two cells in one module can greatly reduce that modules output (this is dependant on how many bypass diodes are in the module).
And, so shading one or two modules can greatly reduce the output of that string.

 

[Mr. Bill]

I haven't seen many post for small wind yet. I don't know a lot about it myself but it seems to have a faster payback than solar. But many towns dislike wind turbines in neighborhoods. One small wind manufacturer in the area here did the prep work to convince many of the cities to allow people to add small wind turbines to their homes as long as it's installed per the guidelines provided by the manufacturer to the cities.

http://www.small-wind-turbine.com/
Back to the costs. I found this website. I thought it was helpful in comparing models and payback. I have not been able to verify any of the data though. Many of these manufacturers offer poor data on their products when you search. Remember two things when looking at the pay back on this site.
1) It does not include batteries, installation or mounting costs. It sould be similar costs to install two similar sized wind turbines. Many systems are sold without batteries. They refer to the Utility as the battery.
2) The pay back is calculated in cost per 1 year. So, while one model says $1.62/kWh, if you want to assume a life expectancy of 20 years then, assuming no maintenance, the average energy will cost $0.081/kWh during those 20 years.

 

[SeanD]

I asked the owner of the company I work for if we would ever get into wind power back when I started working for him. His response was "No, wind blows" (pun intended). From further conversations, from what we know about the current technology, it requires fairly consistent moderate wind for good production (and a good payback). This is very dependent on geography.

The other issue that cowboy touched on is planning departments. Higher is better for wind turbines and from what I understand in urban area's you may need a mast of 60ft. I can't imagine getting that past a planning dept. From articles I have read, even rural jurisdictions are taking exception to the height.

I am the first to admit I am not an expert on this subject so if you disagree with me please include links to where I can learn more about it.

 

[cschmid]

yes, and yes.

there are many factors to concider.
One test we did based on irradiance alone on a typical sunny daywith some clouds were:
43deg C at 875 Irradiance (more clouds)
45.8deg C at 891 Irradiance (less clouds)
This was the Module temp.

Talking about string wiring and affects due to shading.
Strings are wired in series. So are cells in each module. Shading one or two cells in one module can greatly reduce that modules output (this is dependant on how many bypass diodes are in the module).
And, so shading one or two modules can greatly reduce the output of that string.

Irradiance are we talking the amount of the intensity of heat on the surface of the units? and at what point of intensity do we start to actually start to cause lose?

 

[cschmid]

also here are a couple of links to some MN alternative energy stuff. I like fancy words like thingymajig and dohicky..

http://www.kare11.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=835377&catid=14

http://www.awea.org/projects/Projects.aspx?s=Minnesota

I am on a quest for knowledge and the more I learn the less I actually know..

 

[ty]

Irradiance are we talking the amount of the intensity of heat on the surface of the units? and at what point of intensity do we start to actually start to cause lose?

Solar Irradiance is the intensity of Solar Power.
It's typically expressed in Watts per square meter. (or kilowatts per square meter)

A module or array will typically see its irradiance reduced by Cloud Cover, or Indirect Sunlight.

 

[perry vogler]

As a solar and wind generator installer I will tell you that you can't get the education your looking for, we could help you solve a problem or stir you out of one before you get in one. I strongly recomend going to a couple if not more classes that are offered for wind and solar. There is so many thing to know, so many ways to install improperly and get little to no performance and the biggie. Solar and wind power produces DC high voltage. DC power will grab you and not let you go until you dead, it is not like AC current at all. When you complete your strings your voltage is around 250 to 500 volts. Take this very serious, because it is. If there one message I have for anybody installing solar and wind power, educate yourself on the danger of installing PV or wind power before you ever attempt to install a sysytem.
And having said that, do it right away. we need to put the hurt to forign oil.
PV

 

[Besoeker]

I know that this is off at a tangent.
I think renewable systems including solar PV and wind have some merit.
But in terms of meeting total demand, they are a small drop in a big bucket.
There are practical and economic reasons for that - for example, the best resources for solar PV aren't generally located where there is the greatest demand.
Electrical energy is still generated mostly from fossils - conventional thermal. In fact, it is by some margin the largest and fastest growing sector. In the following, "the rest" ,the blue line that hadrly gets off the bottom, is all renewables combined with the exclusion of hydro.

Not current, I know, but I think the most recent data available in the public domain is either 2007 or 2008 so it's not so far behind. I'll do an update at some point.

 

[satcom]

If anyone really feels like beating the high energy costs just hang up a cloths line and solar dry your laundry, and turn off the washing machine and use a wash board, also shut of that 50 inch TV and get the news from a crystal radio, there are many ways to beat high cost of energy.