Solaredge Backup Inverter Generator Connection?

[jaggedben]

Pika was already talking about a DC generator before Generac bought them.

 

[ggunn]

I was under the assumption that the generator was to be used only as a backup to the backup... didn't think the batteries and generator were compatible in any way

Basically batteries get to too low of a level, the xfer switch shuts them down and changes to generator power until the grid is restored to either recharge the batteries or fire up the PV to recharge the batteries.

*just read the document confirming this

Yes, but unless there is some way to dynamically control its output any PV needs to be separated from the generator when that happens.

 

[theenergyguy]

I was told the generator function would be ready 4th quarter 2023. Current software only allows a generator to power loads through the system but can't charge the battery (I have the SolarEdge battery, not the earlier LG).

We've been without utility the last five days due to prolonged snowstorm here in the Sierra Foothills. Sunny days no problem, I can go from 15% to 100% battery charge by 1:30pm. Then I can use (or lose!) a few thousand watts the rest of the afternoon & still be at 100%, just like when I lived off-grid.

Fortunately I kept my older 2000 vintage Trace 5548 inverter with a deep cycle lead acid battery bank. THAT one can charge with a generator (or excess SolarEdge generation), otherwise I'd be S.O.L. Not as efficient but I can program the thing in all sorts of ways....maybe some day SolarEdge will have capabilities like my 23 year old inverter!

 

[bradeyboy]

Still no new update and Solaredge Technical support keeps ignoring my questions. I would love to talk to the design engineers and see what the hang up is. Supposedly from a training video made back in 2021 on BUI wiring the installer/engineer makes a statement that these EG lugs connect after the battery depletes. I took the battery offline and used an ohm meter and never show the EG lugs connect to the load side ever. I guess I should tear one apart and reverse engineer it and sell my findings to all the customers who were cheated by SE.

 

[ggunn]

Still no new update and Solaredge Technical support keeps ignoring my questions. I would love to talk to the design engineers and see what the hang up is. Supposedly from a training video made back in 2021 on BUI wiring the installer/engineer makes a statement that these EG lugs connect after the battery depletes. I took the battery offline and used an ohm meter and never show the EG lugs connect to the load side ever. I guess I should tear one apart and reverse engineer it and sell my findings to all the customers who were cheated by SE.

Is it SolarEdge StorEdge equipment? I thought they discontinued that stuff years ago.

 

[jaggedben]

Is it SolarEdge StorEdge equipment? I thought they discontinued that stuff years ago.

No, it's their newer backup interface unit.

(It only takes a couple seconds to go back to post #1 and see.)

 

[bradeyboy]

I just bantered back and forth again with their support team. Same story. They have the July 2022 application note and nothing else to offer. Fraudulent sales claim to say that the BUI offers generator support. It clearly does not! The EG lugs and dry contacts do not function.

 

[BillK-AZ]

The situation seems to have changed. I received an email from SolarEdge on October 17 that seems to announce that generators can be connected to the Backup Utility Interface now. Not yet confirmed by my local SolarEdge rep. I made this .pdf extract from the email. The document from the link (se-solaredge-inverter-generator-compatibility-with-energy-hub-and-backup-interface-application-note-eng-042023se-solaredge-inverter-generator-compatibility-with-energy-hub-and-backup-interface-application-note-eng-042023) still has the notice " The capability of synchronous generation with the ESS and the generator will be available with future firmware versions. but offers the capability of co-generation with supporting firmware. ".

There is a link to more data but it is long and may be clipped by posting: https://8979728.fs1.hubspotusercontent-na1.net/hubfs/8979728/NAM Assets/se-solaredge-inverter-generator-compatibility-with-energy-hub-and-backup-interface-application-note-eng-042023.pdf

 

[ggunn]

The situation seems to have changed. I received an email from SolarEdge on October 17 that seems to announce that generators can be connected to the Backup Utility Interface now. Not yet confirmed by my local SolarEdge rep. I made this .pdf extract from the email. The document from the link (se-solaredge-inverter-generator-compatibility-with-energy-hub-and-backup-interface-application-note-eng-042023se-solaredge-inverter-generator-compatibility-with-energy-hub-and-backup-interface-application-note-eng-042023) still has the notice " The capability of synchronous generation with the ESS and the generator will be available with future firmware versions. but offers the capability of co-generation with supporting firmware. ".

There is a link to more data but it is long and may be clipped by posting: https://8979728.fs1.hubspotusercontent-na1.net/hubfs/8979728/NAM Assets/se-solaredge-inverter-generator-compatibility-with-energy-hub-and-backup-interface-application-note-eng-042023.pdf

One thing about SolarEdge is that their gear is always changing, and many times the documentation you download is obsolete. Another is that the gear you buy may or may not have all the most recent changes. It can be frustrating.

 

[bradeyboy]

Solaredge just released the latest note for this issue. It shows connecting a generator now and some new info, but still does not give much for technical details about the two wire start or programming steps. Anyone cross this bridge yet?

 

[solarken]

SolarEdge support for generator integration works like this. The SolarEdge inverter and the generator can never operate at the same time. Obviously the same can be said about the grid and generator. Upon grid loss, if there is sufficient energy from PV + Battery, the energy hub inverter supplies the load and the generator remains off. If there is insufficient energy, i.e. the battery reaches low soc, the generator can receive a start command, and after a short delay the inverter relinquishes grid forming mode and the generator is connected to the microgrid to take over. In this mode, the battery can be recharged by the energy hub inverter from generator power. When the battery is charged, a stop signal can be sent to the generator and the inverter can take over.

 

[PWDickerson]

We have quite a few Energy Hub installs that are waiting for the new firmware so that the customer's generator can be wired in. We selected a willing customer near our shop a couple weeks ago to see if we can make it work. With assistance from SE tech support, we are still having problems. Not ready for prime time yet.

 

[Fred B]

One thing about SolarEdge is that their gear is always changing, and many times the documentation you download is obsolete. Another is that the gear you buy may or may not have all the most recent changes. It can be frustrating.

Was at one of their in person trainings and a section became obsolete "while" the instructor was demonstrating live, the online instruction dropped and changed. Training by a solar edge employee.

 

[Birken Vogt]

There are a number of legacy on/off grid companies and a few new ones that will do generator support natively. Why fight with Solaredge?

Outback - Schneider/Xantrex - Sol-Ark

I had a customer call wanting the "new" Generac 380 volt DC generator. Turns out it was dropped at the beginning of this year.

This problem has been solved for 20+ years if you buy the right equipment in the first place.

 

[ggunn]

There are a number of legacy on/off grid companies and a few new ones that will do generator support natively. Why fight with Solaredge?

Outback - Schneider/Xantrex - Sol-Ark

I had a customer call wanting the "new" Generac 380 volt DC generator. Turns out it was dropped at the beginning of this year.

This problem has been solved for 20+ years if you buy the right equipment in the first place.

?? I don't believe AC coupled backup systems and lithium ion batteries of the size needed for them were around 20+ years ago.

 

[Birken Vogt]

I forgot to mention SMA. They were around 20 years ago and AC coupled. But who says it needs to be AC coupled?

AC coupling does not play all that well with islanded power. It works, but it's a kludge.

 

[ggunn]

I forgot to mention SMA. They were around 20 years ago and AC coupled. But who says it needs to be AC coupled?

AC coupling does not play all that well with islanded power. It works, but it's a kludge.

Are you talking about SMA Sunny Islands? Their main problem is that they were (maybe still are) only 5kW and 120V, but for what they were they worked pretty well. You could program them to work with Sunny Boy inverters, a generator, and the grid.

 

[analog8484]

The thing that is odd is that generator integration had been a long solved problem for companies like Schneider and Victron and the newer companies like SE seem to have not learned anything from them and appear be clueless about it. The ability for inverters from companies like Victron to be able to smoothly parallel with the grid/generator for load shaving is likely to become a more valued feature going forward.

 

[Birken Vogt]

Are you talking about SMA Sunny Islands? Their main problem is that they were (maybe still are) only 5kW and 120V, but for what they were they worked pretty well. You could program them to work with Sunny Boy inverters, a generator, and the grid.

I am, but they are able to be stacked series and parallel with as many units as you will ever need. So 120v 5kw is not a problem.

I am starting to like Sol-Ark, they seem to get it. Every manufacturer has their own quirks and foibles, but basically, if people are using them off grid, then they will have the generator problem solved, and that problem was solved and also they were selling back, well back into the 1990s with old Trace/Xantrex gear. Many of those are still running fine to this day.

 

[jaggedben]

I forgot to mention SMA. They were around 20 years ago and AC coupled. But who says it needs to be AC coupled?

AC coupling does not play all that well with islanded power. It works, but it's a kludge.

In my opinion these comments and some of the others are a few years out of date.

Yes, that old equipment still works. But the newer approaches allow for things the old ones didn't, like backing up a 200A residential feeder, and doing so with one warranty, a cleaner look on the wall, and UL9540A listings so that installations don't freak out AHJs.