Soldered splices

Status
Not open for further replies.
J

jwnagy

Member
Location
Damascus, Maryland
I saw something today that I haven't seen in a number of years, soldered splices. It's not unusual to see soldered splices in dwellings that are built before, say, 1940. However, the house that I'm working in was built in 1965 and everyone of the joints are soldered and taped...no wirenuts. The wiring is original to the home.

Does anyone remember which code cycle that soldered splices were done away with?

Just curious.

Jeff
 
AFAIK soldered splices are still OK provided the splice is mechanically and electrically secure before being soldered.
 
jwnagy said:
I saw something today that I haven't seen in a number of years, soldered splices. It's not unusual to see soldered splices in dwellings that are built before, say, 1940. However, the house that I'm working in was built in 1965 and everyone of the joints are soldered and taped...no wirenuts. The wiring is original to the home.

Does anyone remember which code cycle that soldered splices were done away with?

Just curious.

Jeff
Click to expand...


I don’t know but my dad told me about a guy that we go to church with, he is in his 60s and he is buddies with my uncle. So he wired my cousins house, he did a little wiring on my grandparents bathroom remodel.

I wasnt around, I don’t remember where I was but my dad said he soldered every connection.

He he is retired from the phone company.
 
DBoone said:
I don’t know but my dad told me about a guy that we go to church with, he is in his 60s and he is buddies with my uncle. So he wired my cousins house, he did a little wiring on my grandparents bathroom remodel.

I wasnt around, I don’t remember where I was but my dad said he soldered every connection.

He he is retired from the phone company.
Click to expand...


I thought that code did away with soldered splices that solely relied on soldering; that a further mechanical means was required. I'm going to go back and look again in the code book.

I pulled this quote from ECM:

As per 110.14(B), "Conductors shall be spliced or joined with splicing devices identified for the use or by brazing, welding, or soldering with a fusible metal or alloy. Soldered splices shall first be spliced or joined so as to be mechanically and electrically secure without solder and then be soldered. All splices and joints and the free ends of conductors shall be covered with an insulation equivalent to that of the conductors or with an insulating device identified for the purpose. Wire connectors or splicing means installed on conductors for direct burial shall be listed for such use."

So my question at this point would be, is one wrap of electrical tape considered "equivalent" to the insulation of the conductors?
 
Last edited:
jwnagy said:
I thought that code did away with soldered splices that solely relied on soldering; that a further mechanical means was required. I'm going to go back and look again in the code book.

I pulled this quote from ECM:

As per 110.14(B), "Conductors shall be spliced or joined with splicing devices identified for the use or by brazing, welding, or soldering with a fusible metal or alloy. Soldered splices shall first be spliced or joined so as to be mechanically and electrically secure without solder and then be soldered. All splices and joints and the free ends of conductors shall be covered with an insulation equivalent to that of the conductors or with an insulating device identified for the purpose. Wire connectors or splicing means installed on conductors for direct burial shall be listed for such use."

So my question at this point would be, is one wrap of electrical tape considered "equivalent" to the insulation of the conductors?
Click to expand...


Yeah im not sure. I know I won’t be doing any soldering so I’m not concerned with it. I like new fangled wire nuts and “push in” connectors :)
 
Soldered joints have never 'been done away with'. They're still allowed.

electricman2 said:
AFAIK soldered splices are still OK provided the splice is mechanically and electrically secure before being soldered.
Click to expand...

110.14(B). But I've always wondered, if your connection is mechanically and electrically secure before the application of solder, then what purpose does the solder serve? Seems like a total waste of time and money.
 
480sparky said:
Soldered joints have never 'been done away with'. They're still allowed.



110.14(B). But I've always wondered, if your connection is mechanically and electrically secure before the application of solder, then what purpose does the solder serve? Seems like a total waste of time and money.
Click to expand...

The solder keeps the connection secure. Otherwise you could just twist and tape.
 
ptonsparky said:
Why not?

The shop I first worked for had solder pots, lead, torches, K&T insulators and guys that knew how.
Click to expand...

250.148 (E) Solder. Connections depending solely on solder shall not be used. 2014 NEC
But obviosly there is a difference between a splice and a connection.
 
480sparky said:
That's my point. If the connection is already secure (which the NEC requires) before the application of solder, then why solder?
Click to expand...

Well, I do it because of corrosion resistance, but I don't think that is why the NEC requires it.

We are allowed to use one of the following, a connecting device identified for the use (wire nut, Wago) OR soldering, brazing or welding. They all do one thing, and that is to provide longevity of the mechanically secure connection. For example, twisted solid wires are considered mechanically secured. Without a wire nut or some solder, how long would they stay secured while being stuffed into a box?

IMHO, as far as the NEC is concerned, the application of the solder is to keep the wires twisted together when they are moved. Mechanically secure doesn't mean mechanically equivalent in strength. It just means they won't fall apart when you let go of them.
 
480sparky said:
But I've always wondered, if your connection is mechanically and electrically secure before the application of solder, then what purpose does the solder serve? Seems like a total waste of time and money.
Click to expand...

The solder increases the contact area between the two (or more) conductors.

BEFORE wire nuts (a GREAT invention) you either learned to solder correctly or you were out of a job (in my line of work, Broadcast Technician, anyway).

The secret' (if you can call it that) is getting the wires of the joint hot enough to melt the solder.......to that end, ignore the 'do not place solder on the iron' advice, and have a small drop of molten solder on the iron at the contact area.....this greatly increases the area of heat flow.
 
Gary Glaenzer said:
The solder increases the contact area between the two (or more) conductors...........
Click to expand...

There's still only so much contact surface area between the conductors. The solder won't increase that. It simply 'fills in' the voids with solder, which, by the NEC, is not a proper conductor. If you're relying on the solder to increase the electrical conductivity of the joint, then you do not have an 'electrically secure' joint to start with.

And the joint is still required to be electrically sound before solder. Adding the solder will do zip in terms of useful conductivity. The solder just seems to be totally redundant.
 
I can imagine two electricians a long time ago having the following conversation:

"Hey Jim, what are those? Those little candy corn looking things?"

"Wire nuts. All you do is put the wires together and twist them on... No solder needed"

"What? Those things are garbage! That's not a proper connection! I will never give up my soldering iron and trusty tape!"

Fast forward countless decades to today:

"Hey Jim, what are those? Those little clear plastic wedge looking things?"

"Wago connectors. Work on pretty much all wire sizes, all you do is push in the wires or lock them under a little flip tab. They are clear so you can see the connection, and they run cooler than...."

"What? Those things are garbage! That's not how you make a proper connection! I will never give up my wire nuts!"

(the story continues)

Fast forward a hundred or so years from now:

Little Timmy asks, "Hey Grandad what is that?"

"This is my grandfather's electrical pouch"

"What are those little plastic things in that pocket?"

"Oh those?, Those are assorted connectors, from back in the day where they had to run wire everywhere they wanted electricity. It's mostly been wireless now since before you were born."

"Wow! ... And what is that rectangular black thing with the little spiral coming off of it?"

"That Timmy, that is an arc fault circuit breaker... These have not been used in 50 years, after the largest class action lawsuit in United States history made them illegal to install in 2050".

Fin.:D
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top