something needs to be done .

[wbalsam1]

........................ went to cut in the circuit , the panel had been changed . It couldn't have been done by anyone who had any basic electrical knowledge, they left out the main breaker. .............

Just wondering if the panelboard you were working in was a remote panelboard within the same home. If it wasn't the service panel then it wouldn't need a main. :smile:

 

[hbiss]

We as homeowners,do have the right to
work on our own homes.But,we don't have the right to put
our neighbors homes at risk. We as homeowners,do have the right to
work on our own homes.But,we don't have the right to put
our neighbors homes at risk.

And what happens when the home gets sold? Is the previous owner's handiwork going to kill the unsuspecting new owner and his family?

I agree that homeowners should be able to do their own work but that doesn't mean that they should have easy access to materials. Years ago DIY electrical wasn't as much of a problem as it is today. We can thank the big boxes and the DIY shows.

30 years ago the only place you could get a panel is at a supply house and if you were a DIY homeowner they would throw you out.

-Hal

 

[480sparky]

And what happens when the home gets sold? Is the previous owner's handiwork going to kill the unsuspecting new owner and his family?

That's when the new owner calls for an independent inspection.

....... We can thank the big boxes and the DIY shows.

How much electrical have you actually seen on DIY shows?

 

[c2500]

If it's a truly serious violation, I will have the customer sign a release form stating the defienciency and declaring that they have not allowed me to fix it. CYA.

Out of curiosity, have you ever discussed this approach with legal counsel? I can't help but think they might try to blame you for not insisting that they make the repair.

c2500

 

[480sparky]

Out of curiosity, have you ever discussed this approach with legal counsel? I can't help but think they might try to blame you for not insisting that they make the repair.

c2500

I don't walk into a service call and say, "Hey didja notice the smoke rolling out of your panel? Sign here, please." Obviously, I would try to get them to fix it. Two reasons... 1. it's unsafe and 2. that's what I'm in business for. But some folks either just don't care ("Well, it's been like that for 10 years now...") or just don't have the money.

I rarely come up on situations that are so serious I think it should be fixed no matter what. They usually fix it once I explain it to them. If they refuse, I not only pull out the form, but if it's serious enough, I would either call the building department or Child Safety Services if there's chitlins in the equation.

 

[Rockyd]

Interesting thread. People need to remember that we live in a republic, not a democracy. That said, the only thing government is supposed to do is infrastructure, and defense. In the private sector, where the force of the market are at work, choose freedom, or socialism will choose you!

I work on my place, and think that what happens in between, is between me and the underwriter. A thread not too long ago was talking about the violations we have at home. Good to see captitalism is still alive and well. Home of the free, because of the brave!

 

[bradleyelectric]

The first thing I do when there is a troubleshooting problem is ask the homeowner if they or someone else had done any electrical work in the home. I don't ask that question so I know what doesn't have to be looked at. I want to know who did what so I know where the problem is. That is the first place to look.

I was on a job a couple years ago where the homeowner had a kitchen guy remove a door and put in windows in the kitchen and put the door in the dining room. They never rejacked the sides of the windows. The jack from the old door was about 1/3rd of the way from the end of the right window.

She was a real estate agent that bought the house for her and her 2 girls to live in and I'm sure to sell at some point in time. I'm also sure that window wont operate properly after a few years.

 

[BryanMD]

I work on my place, and think that what happens in between, is between me and the underwriter.

and the underwriter is where and how UL and NFPA and the code got started.

At some point this is going to get around to the licensed & qualified vs the amateur... the problem/solution is with the inspection of the work being done and NOT who is doing it.

But of course no one wants to pay for that many inspectors... and around we go.

 

[jaylectricity]

The first thing I do when there is a troubleshooting problem is ask the homeowner if they or someone else had done any electrical work in the home. I don't ask that question so I know what doesn't have to be looked at. I want to know who did what so I know where the problem is. That is the first place to look.

Yes, my first question is, "When was the last time this wasn't a problem?" Then, "When did you notice the problem?" And finally, "Have you had any kind of work done on your house between those times?"

Usually I have to throw out some ideas but eventually I jog their memory.

 

[jim dungar]

30 years ago the only place you could get a panel is at a supply house and if you were a DIY homeowner they would throw you out.

Not in this part of the country. 30 years ago almost every hardware as well as home improvement store stocked and sold breakers and loadcenters. As a college student I bought my first fishtape in 1975 from the largest supply house in the area.

 

[Karl H]

That's when the new owner calls for an independent inspection.



How much electrical have you actually seen on DIY shows?

DIY shows have taught me way more than this forum.This forum is about safety and those hard to understand codes.When the DIY show taught me what really matters.Always turn off the main when working on the electrical system and never show up to the jobsite with a dirty pouch and tools that have been used. Plus the most important lesson of all is "Yes even you can
perform the same work and quality of a trained professional with only
30 min of training from this program at your lesuire. :grin:
Everything you have just read is just a JOKE people. lol:grin:

 

[growler]

Not in this part of the country. 30 years ago . As a college student I bought my first fishtape in 1975 from the largest supply house in the area.

30 years ago I didn't have an account at the supply house so I would have a friend of mine that worked there put the materials I bought on the account of one of the big companies so that I could by Wholesale and get a discount. I would just pay in cash and no one ever questioned it.

Heck, you could buy a wiremans license back then for $25 in some of the little towns.

 

[Karl H]

We as homeowners,do have the right to
work on our own homes.But,we don't have the right to put
our neighbors homes at risk. We as homeowners,do have the right to
work on our own homes.But,we don't have the right to put
our neighbors homes at risk.

And what happens when the home gets sold? Is the previous owner's handiwork going to kill the unsuspecting new owner and his family?

I agree that homeowners should be able to do their own work but that doesn't mean that they should have easy access to materials. Years ago DIY electrical wasn't as much of a problem as it is today. We can thank the big boxes and the DIY shows.

30 years ago the only place you could get a panel is at a supply house and if you were a DIY homeowner they would throw you out.

-Hal

25 years ago in Houston TX where I started..You could go to the Hardware store and buy
25' of nm,plugs,switches,wirenuts,25' of AC cable and fittings,a few plug-in
breakers,screw-in fuses,etc.But, to rough a house you had to go to a
supply house and show proof of a DBA to open an account then and only then
were you able to buy bulk electrical products. Those were the days.

 

[billdozier]

well with all the new safety stuff out today you can hook it up however you want to and it be safe. I mean that new barewire makes everything safe right. Even em wires hidden under the floor still hooked to em new breakers I mean they arent federal pacific for crying out loud. Theyll trip wont they. Hey youall look at what I done with my flask and dog

 

[LarryFine]

That's when the new owner calls for an independent inspection.

That's not very reassuring, either. :roll:

 

[iwire]

I agree that homeowners should be able to do their own work but that doesn't mean that they should have easy access to materials. Years ago DIY electrical wasn't as much of a problem as it is today. We can thank the big boxes and the DIY shows.

30 years ago the only place you could get a panel is at a supply house and if you were a DIY homeowner they would throw you out.

-Hal

I think you are just looking back with that 'it was better back then attitude'

This country was built by DIYs, the carpentry, the wiring, the plumbing.

You say homeowners have a right to work on their home but at the same time you want restricted access to parts.

That will result in people using whatever they can get their hands on or a black market of parts.

The DIY shows and stores did not create the do it yourselfer, they just saw that the DIYs where out there and aimed to serve them.

My own home is a 1925, I bought it from two brothers in their 60s, they explained how their Dad built the entire home himself. His real trade? He was a local butcher. I doubt he ever saw a DIY show or store.

 

[mattsilkwood]

ive seen some scary stuff from diyers but alot of it is from necessity i believe. theres alot of people that simply dont have the money to hire a profesional.

 

[iaov]

i like that

Cute but the Ark is a myth. Amatuers did not send men to the moon,discover penecilan,build a circuit breaker or an aircraft carrier,etc.,etc.I'm always a little surprized that a forum that I believe has some of the top proffesionals in the country as members, is always so eager to discount the work of proffesionals. I don't know about you guys but I don't want an amatuer working on my teeth, removing my appendix, or even fixing my roof.I amk also a bit amazed by the fact that I cannot murder my family with a gun but its OK to do it with a 14/2 wire and a 50 amp breaker.

 

[iwire]

Cute but the Ark is a myth. Amatuers did not send men to the moon,discover penecilan,build a circuit breaker or an aircraft carrier,etc.,etc.I'm always a little surprized that a forum that I believe has some of the top proffesionals in the country as members, is always so eager to discount the work of proffesionals. I don't know about you guys but I don't want an amatuer working on my teeth, removing my appendix, or even fixing my roof.I amk also a bit amazed by the fact that I cannot murder my family with a gun but its OK to do it with a 14/2 wire and a 50 amp breaker.

You can also 'murder your family' with a car used stupidly. We will never be able to stop stupid.

I do not want amatures working on my teeth or removing my appendix, but we are not taking about home owners hiring amatures to work on their home, we are talking about homeowners right to work on their own home. And if those same homeowners also want to remove their own appendix I am fine with that as well,:smile:

 

[hillbilly]

You can also 'murder your family' with a car used stupidly. We will never be able to stop stupid.

I do not want amatures working on my teeth or removing my appendix, but we are not taking about home owners hiring amatures to work on their home, we are talking about homeowners right to work on their own home. And if those same homeowners also want to remove their own appendix I am fine with that as well,:smile:

Well said....I agree 100%.

steve