SOOW for outlet outside?

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KaBoom! said:
... Be realistic, the DIYer is going to cut the pipe with his jigsaw ...
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Jigsaw? I expect him to use his grandfather's old, dull pipe cutter for cutting EMT.

SO cable is finely stranded for flexibility. It would be difficult to make a good tight connection under a screwhead and easy to have a strand flailing loose where it doesn't belong.
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jumper said:
Yes to first paragraph.:

No to the second, a little updating I would consider, but complete substitution for NM-nope.
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Why would you not want the option of using SO in situations where NM is acceptable?

You would need support/knockout fittings/electrical connections suitable to the cable, but if installed correctly what would the problem be?

Not really going to try to argue too hard; SO is more expensive and is made to be flexible, so it probably isn't much benefit when you don't want the flex. But is there something that makes SO cord _less_ suitable than NM for fixed installations?

-Jon
 
KaBoom! said:
You are right in that is works very well in many situations. I am not sure if the code needs to change, but from a realistic standpoint what the homeowner DIYer was going to do would have been fine. Much better than typical DIY crap.

I don't think this guy got "saved" by the OP, I believe the cobbled together conduit will end up being more dangerous.
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The cord and the DIY'd conduit are both likely to be sub-par. SO cords permanently installed will not last long outdoors...insufficient UV protection. And protection from damage is nonexistent. The Conduit job could turn out okay, or be a disaster. Hopefully the OP at least guided the guy toward PVC and not metal.
 
winnie said:
Why would you not want the option of using SO in situations where NM is acceptable?

You would need support/knockout fittings/electrical connections suitable to the cable, but if installed correctly what would the problem be?

Not really going to try to argue too hard; SO is more expensive and is made to be flexible, so it probably isn't much benefit when you don't want the flex. But is there something that makes SO cord _less_ suitable than NM for fixed installations?

-Jon
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You mean beyond the fire rating, different values for insulation breakdown, ampacity, etc...

Not feasible IMO.

There is an argument for certain cords in certain applications, but direct/ or equally indirect substitute for NM-no.
 
Besoeker said:
Ignorant Brit strikes again.
What is SOOW?
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Various types of cord. His install would be "premise" wiring, and this cord is not allowed for that.

see https://www.awcwire.com/producttoc.aspx?id=type-sj-sjoow-portable-cord

I originally thought he was making a cap cord for the RV, then heard him chatting about swapping out a 2pole breaker for a dual dual pole breaker so he can wire in the RV receptacle box.

Craigv said:
The cord and the DIY'd conduit are both likely to be sub-par. SO cords permanently installed will not last long outdoors...insufficient UV protection. And protection from damage is nonexistent. The Conduit job could turn out okay, or be a disaster. Hopefully the OP at least guided the guy toward PVC and not metal.
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Exactly, he was asking about sun and weather damage, I thought sure, portable cord that gets exposed every now and then, that's fine, but he wanted to use it as exposed premise wiring. I didn't cite NEC, just said that cord will not last, go with THWN and some plastic conduit. He only had 10ft of wire.

KaBoom! said:
You are right in that is works very well in many situations. I am not sure if the code needs to change, but from a realistic standpoint what the homeowner DIYer was going to do would have been fine. Much better than typical DIY crap.

I don't think this guy got "saved" by the OP, I believe the cobbled together conduit will end up being more dangerous.
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I specifically told him to use the gray PVC, ez like doing plumbing work ;)
Perhaps he doesnt get all the fitting right, but frayed rubber cord later is more hazard. It sounded to me though like his buddy on the phone was gonna do the work, so who knows.
 
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He was also swapping out a top located 30A tied 2pole for a tandem 30A 2pole with handle ties, the outer handles were tied but removable. This too was questionable, but not knowing the exact panel I could not say go or no-go.
 
jumper said:
Yes to first paragraph.:

No to the second, a little updating I would consider, but complete substitution for NM-nope.
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It comes I need many of the same sizes as NM and is service rated but is also marine rated... so I would consider it over NM for use in concrete, except for its thickness. But, not yet allowed. Army has been using it for field use some, have not heard anything bad from that so far.
 
Adamjamma said:
It is listed on their pages under descriptions and specifications as service rated...
https://www.awcwire.com/producttoc.aspx?id=soow-cable
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The "service" in cable descriptions is unrelated to the NEC definition of "service", obviously. An S not followed by a J indicates "extra hard use" cable. SJ is "junior" and has thinner jacket and lower voltage rating (typically 300v vs 600v), and any additional letters indicate various other features/characteristics and usages.

Here's a decent listing and description of the various cable types:

http://www.interpower.com/ic/design...es-and-charts/North-American-Cable-Types.html
 
winnie said:
If this were a pendant (SO cord with proper strain relief going from a fixed box to a cord cap or box rated for pendant use, them it would be allowed.

IMHO the restriction on flexible cord not being used for fixed wiring could stand some updating; it seems that a suitably rated cord with suitable support should be usable anywhere we permit NM.

-Jon
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jumper said:
Yes to first paragraph.:

No to the second, a little updating I would consider, but complete substitution for NM-nope.
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Definitely not allow concealment of flexible cords, you can at least see that outer covering falling off after it ages, then choose to ignore it if you want to:)

chris kennedy said:
I carry an extra shirt in my truck so if I have to go in big box I'm not identified as an electrician.
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One that says "Chris' handyman service" or maybe your competitor's T shirts?:cool:
 
Craigv said:
The "service" in cable descriptions is unrelated to the NEC definition of "service", obviously. An S not followed by a J indicates "extra hard use" cable. SJ is "junior" and has thinner jacket and lower voltage rating (typically 300v vs 600v), and any additional letters indicate various other features/characteristics and usages.

Here's a decent listing and description of the various cable types:

http://www.interpower.com/ic/design...es-and-charts/North-American-Cable-Types.html
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??

SJ is 300v rated, S w/o J is 600v rated
an E has thermoplastic jacket
not sure i see where any SO or SJ cord type is "extra hard use". they have heavy/med/light designations based on jackets.

https://www.awcwire.com/producttoc.aspx?id=type-sj-sjoow-portable-cord
 
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jumper said:
Are vendor sires or the NEC enforceable as a rule?
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is NASA better than SpaceX.

but to answer your Q, really depends on what the AHJ says that day. :lol:

if vendor instructions say "xyz" and the thing is UL certified, but NEC has conflicting verbiage, I could reason with AHJ to say the vendor verbiage is better/correct. up to AHJ to decide though.
 
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