Speaking of permits..or avoiding them

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I work part time as an ICC certified, PA UCC certified residential electrical inspector. I also still do electrical work on a limited basis.

I do electrical inspections on Saturdays, after hours as long as there is daylight and give people my cell phone number to call me.

I have done inspections on Saturdays, Sundays and finished one just as the sun was setting in June right before 9pm.

I too am a little sick of the 8-4 municipal mentality so I am bucking the system by doing this. I am self employed so I have no one to answer to but myself.

There is still no reason to try to get out of getting a permit.
 
AndyS said:
Well,

But since you asked, let me start by saying that I don't live in MN.
There is no License or qualification required to become a Home Inspector in MO.
I have been involved in commercial building maintenance as an Operating Engineer for about 14 years, which required me to become familiar with NFPA Codes and Standards.
I have also been trained to be a HI as such to meet the requirements in states that do have licensing. I've passed the National HI Exam, and I read 90 words a minute with 95% comprehension, which qualifies me to look up things in the code book, and search for things on this forum for clarification if I need it.

You seem to be having difficulty understanding that there's NO ONE but me looking at a lot of these installations. You cannot pull permits if there isn't a provision to issue them. You can't get your job inspected if there's no one (government employed) to inspect it. You can't get a license to be an EC if there's no provision for issuing them. I know that it may be hard to understand, but that's the way it works in a lot of places around here.

I am hired by the perspective HO to protect them from unscrupulous contractors, sellers, RE agents, etc. that are willing to make a buck at the expense of their safety. My inspections are not meant to be technically exhaustive, and I recommend the deficiencies that I discover be repaired by a qualified contractor. It's up to them to find out who that may be.
That's where things like the BBB and other consumer advocate groups come into play.
I work in some cities that do require Contractors Licenses and permits, and I would say that, excepting new construction, I find almost as many things wrong there. Most HO's don't pull permits, most HO's don't want to spend the money on a contractor that's licensed and pulls permits, these are just facts of life.
Another fact is that there are far more complaints with the BBB regarding contractors, and RE agents, than HI's, and I routinely find violations (in certain local municipalities) that Codes Inspectors miss.

I may not meet the lofty standards set forth by your state, but believe me, I am much better than NOTHING.
Most EC's like me, because I generate work for them, unless they fall into the unscrupulous category, then they don't like me very much.

I have 10's of gigs of pictures that show the most ridiculous installations some of you may have ever seen. I also check the plumbing, HVAC, and structure as well.
Human ingenuity never ceases to amaze me.

LMAO man and thought I got on rants...I understand your passion..lofty is all in the eyes of the beholder..codes are minimum safety standards..nice to meet you andy..So you are saying that no licenses need for any trade and it is do as they want..so why would they listen to your recommendations..
 
cschmid said:
LMAO man and thought I got on rants...I understand your passion..lofty is all in the eyes of the beholder..codes are minimum safety standards..nice to meet you andy..So you are saying that no licenses need for any trade and it is do as they want..so why would they listen to your recommendations..
Because of my sunny disposition! :D

I never really thought about it that way before, but that's how it is.
Heck, I did an inspection for a guy the other day that has been a property inspector for the Government for 40 years. He's forgotten more about building stuff than I'll probably ever know, but since he was the buyer, his opinion doesn't hold any weight.
I'm not even Licensed, but mine does just because I decided to become a HI? It is kinda backwards if you think about it, but so is everything nowadays.
I didn't miss anything, according to him. The house had been inspected before, and they had a copy of the report. I found things the other guy didn't, and I didn't miss anything the old man found.
I didn't know I was being "tested" till the end of the inspection, luckily I passed.

I have to go write a report, so I won't be back tonight. I'll stop in again though, you guys are fun!
 
Call by 4:00 PM and you have an inspection the next day. Call me between 7-8 the next day and I can give you a pretty good time (usually), but it's first come first served. If I've answered the phone and given 5 people times, don't call me at 7:59 and expect special consideration, you get what you get. Don't call and tell me you need me there at 3:00 because that's the only time you can make it, because I may have a meeting at 3:00. Please call and cancel in the morning if you didn't get your work done, saves me a wasted stop and maybe helps out someone else. You will always get an inspection here, someone will cover for me.

I am the Chief Electical Inspector, I am the only electrical inspector. I am also the electrical plan checker, I do over the counter plan checks 2 mornings a week, I have a staff meeting one morning a week and training one afternoon a week.

Sometime me saying I'm going to get out of the office and me actually getting out of the office are two entirely different things.
 
I get permits only when I have to. Otherwise I don't worry about it. As far as when the inspector shows up I really don't care. I never meet them there unless I'm going to be there already. If it fails for any reason I am always made aware of it.
 
electricmanscott said:
Another reason to avoid the headaches of permits.

Had inspection set up for 3 pm Tues afternoon. Wait...wait...wait.....4 o'clock now no inspector.

Call office and there he is. "Ran out of time, I'll be there tomorrow....."

Next one...

Buddy calls inspector (different city) Mon aft for Tues inspection. "Call back in the morning" the guy says rather than just set it up then.

He calls in the am...."I can't get out there today" the guy says

So they set it up for this morning. Buddy waits for an hour then goes into the inspectional service office which was right around the corner.

Inspector bagged in sick today. God forbid they call all the people waiting for inspections......

:rolleyes: :mad:

Inspectors should be professional and mature. They should not be arrogant. There is nothing worse than an egotistical inspector with an inferiority complex!
Inspectors should be confident in their use of authority and demonstrate maturity and competence. They should be able to effectively communicate and maintain a good attitude on the job. They should be knowledgeable men and women who rule consistently, holding to the same fairness and dependability day after day. They should seek to eliminate misunderstandings, and evaluate each problem without bias. If your inspectors are less than this...you have every right to complain. You still have a lawful duty to obtain permits, though. :smile:
 
wbalsam1 said:
Inspectors should be professional and mature. They should not be arrogant. There is nothing worse than an egotistical inspector with an inferiority complex!
Inspectors should be confident in their use of authority and demonstrate maturity and competence. They should be able to effectively communicate and maintain a good attitude on the job. They should be knowledgeable men and women who rule consistently, holding to the same fairness and dependability day after day. They should seek to eliminate misunderstandings, and evaluate each problem without bias. If your inspectors are less than this...you have every right to complain. You still have a lawful duty to obtain permits, though. :smile:
100% Agreed............
 
Being from MA as well I have seen the same issues Scott has brought up. It can be very frustrating.

That said, I think it is also worth pointing out that many of the MA EIs in small towns are part timers, they get paid next to nothing per inspection. Normally they are also ECs trying to run a business and make inspections.

The inspectors are not responsible for the way the system has been set up. (I still wish they where more willing to pick up the phone)

In my own town the building dept office staff treats each person at the counter very rudely they treat the inspector the same way.. :mad:
 
iwire said:
Being from MA as well I have seen the same issues Scott has brought up. It can be very frustrating.

That said, I think it is also worth pointing out that many of the MA EIs in small towns are part timers, they get paid next to nothing per inspection. Normally they are also ECs trying to run a business and make inspections.

The inspectors are not responsible for the way the system has been set up. (I still wish they where more willing to pick up the phone)

In my own town the building dept office staff treats each person at the counter very rudely they treat the inspector the same way.. :mad:


This is service provided by the state here not the city..the inspectors are contract inspectors and are paid a percentage of the inspection fee..they are very busy and normally very professional..Yet I can only speak for the EI's in our area or the ones we have dealt with..the ones I have dealt with in recent years I can tell you their names and count them on one hand..only one has retired..
 
I have no problem with guys not getting permits, it's a very profitable thing for us, in fact we have 3 guys who's only job it is, is to track down violators. A $100 permit now becomes a $200 permit.

Now I guess it would all depend on where you live as to how easy it is to get away with doing non-permitted work. Here it's pretty hard since most of the inspectors live in town.

We look at EC's who don't get permits a lot harder than we do HO's who don't, because the EC is supposed to know better. Those of you who claim the guys doing side work are taking money out of your pockets are doing the same thing to the pockets of the jurisdictions you work in.

Somebody in one of the other threads asked about morals. Funny how something can be right as long as it benefiting you.
 
what if a job is inspected and then there is a electrical fire?

what if a job is inspected and then there is a electrical fire?

Is the inspector liable?He inspected it and passed it?
 
Speaking of permits or avoiding them

Speaking of permits or avoiding them

I used to agree
Just recently we are suppose to call inspections in and leave them on a machine before 7:30 am for that day inspection which sometimes gets dropped and never received by the inspector
But I have to take up for the city inspectors here in Asheville, you can call there cell phones and talk direct to them
They try there best to catch it the same day and I can't remember when I was left out
Knowing that I try to obey the laws they all will stand behind me if anything comes up, and I can't remember when I was turned down
I usually try to be on the job that's inspected when they arrive just in case
I overlooked something so I can fix it
Inspections make the home owner feel better and lets you off the hook

Haven't always felt this way but our inspectors treat you like they want to be treated with respect and fairness

I wouldn't be a inspector for anything
Semper Fi Buddy
 
Brady....we do the same thing in Richmond,VA. Our system allows a person to schedule an inspection for the next day if they call in before midnight on the day before.

Now...we have been running a little behind because we are down to only 4 inspectors right now and a large load but we are making a comeback and most fo them know our cell phones and can call us for just about anything they need......they are our clients and we have a job to support them.
 
scwirenut said:
im not saying the homeowner is subbing out, im the EC, the permit has me listed, not the HO, they just go there, apply, and pay.

no different then if I sent my wife...., or secretary if I had one, or employee, they dont care, all they want is the fee....
cant do that here you have to go in person to pull the permit. But guess what , the home owner can go home and fax it back and it goes thru. Is that stupid or what. The prob with fax you cant work till permit arrives in the mail
 
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