I am adding a sub-panel in a residence. The existing panelboard(100A 240V) has no spares and I need a circuit for a sump pump(20A 120V). My question is can I remove two circuits from the existing panelboard and insert a two pole 100A to feed the sub panel. Since the two circuits I will be removing are in EMT conduit with other circuits I would like to splice them in the existing panel and pick up the OCPD in the new sub-panel. The practice in my jurisdiction is to never splice in a cabinet containing a panelboard but I can't find a code reference that prohibits this. Where I am working the 2005 NEC is used. Can anyone shed some light on this. Is the no splicing rule in a panel board real or myth?:?
Splicing in a residential panelboard.
- Thread starter mjc1060
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Massachusetts
There is no code or other reason not to splice in an electrical cabinet.
See 312.8 for details.
See 312.8 for details.
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- Semi-retired engineer
Where will you find a 100A branch CB to fit in a 100A panel?
You may consider a Eaton(C-H) QC2100 which is a panel mounted cable in cable out breaker which can be mounted to the back of the box after ipthe interior is removed.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
Other than a few panels that only have maybe six pole spaces, most 100 amp panels I have ever seen will accept and are listed for using 100 amp branch breakers.
Pretty much anywhere that sells breakers. 100A 2pole is the same as 15A 2pole in terms of fit and availability. Personally, I don't see the need. I'd do a 50 or 60 amp sub.
curt swartz
Electrical Contractor - San Jose, CA
- Location
- San Jose, CA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
I agree with the others that there is no problem splicing in the existing panel or finding a 2-pole 100 amp breaker. Do you really need 100 amps for the added panel if all you are adding is 1 20 amp circuit? If you are just going to be moving a couple existing 20 amp circuits to the new panel why not feed it will 40 amps? 100 amps seems overkill.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
I would usually feed with 60 amps, as most breaker lines a 60 is same price as a 15 or 20, but get into 70 amp or larger and the price usually goes up. 60 allows for a fair amount of additional circuits down the road without needing to upgrade the feeder again. I also usually put large enough nipple between panels that 100 amp conductor can be easily installed at later time if needed.
delfadelfa
Member
- Location
- Cincinnati, OH
If the panelboard is designed for tandem circuit breakers I would slip one of them in there or give them a price on a service and panel change.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
With todays (and upcoming) AFCI requirements, that it not as simple as it once was either.
goldstar
Senior Member
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
There's no reason you can't splice in a breaker cabinet as long as you have the trough space. If you're working with an old Federal panel that's crammed with wires to begin with you shouldn't splice there. Also, if you're installing a 100A sub-panel and using SE cable you'll have to derate to 90 amps. You'll also have to figure out how you're going to terminate the ground and neutral wires of the SE cable in a panel that's already packed with wires. IMHO, I would do as kwired suggested and install a 60 amp sub-panel. Less hassle and much easier to terminate.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
That is entirely dependent on what size the conductors are. It is true many suppliers maybe only have demand for certain sizes and you may find yourself in that situation with what is readily available.
Can you use it for a pull box? If I come out of the panel to say a switch box and go back the same pipe through the panel and up a different pipe with a switch leg to a fixture.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
Yes. You could even have circuits that do not originate from that panel pass through it, may be a bad design choice but is not a NEC violation either.
Sierrasparky
Senior Member
- Location
- USA
- Occupation
- Electrician ,contractor
OOOOOH I hate that method. You are looking for trouble. Bad Idea althoug legitimate.
goldstar
Senior Member
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
I was always under the impression that you couldn't (or should I say "shouldn't") use the breaker cabinet as a raceway even though there's no NEC section citing that.
lakee911
Senior Member
- Location
- Columbus, OH
Bad practice, but technically okay.
- Location
- Massachusetts
For the life of me I have never understood why people think it is 'bad practice' to install wiring in an electrical enclosure.
lakee911
Senior Member
- Location
- Columbus, OH
Wireless is the future!
Seriously... the reference was to passing wires through the enclosure that aren't terminated in the enclosure. Bad practice. Makes a panel change later more difficult.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
So does recessing the panel in a wall or entering with cables or raceways from multiple sides.
- Status