Square D quality going down?

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Fred B said:
I too have been getting a lot of panels enclosures not square, (Square D not so square) or misaligned the panel board to enclosure so cover will not sit with breakers installed, one as much as 3/8 inch. Had one that for the screws to attach the cover, the one side of breakers had totally exposing breaker wire screws. Had to ream the cover holes enough to get the cover to both sit down on breakers properly and get all the screws in. Also seeing a lot of issues with the spot weld not actually making a weld, can see it was done but didn't securely fasten.
Issues not limited to Square D.

What happened to QC ?!!

Also Getting a lot of the N/G bus screws that will not holdup to the torque specs provided. The square/ Robertson bit will spin out before reaching torque and the slotted is not enough meat to catch either. It seems the screw hardening is not consistent. Kind of wish they would just use the ECX style as you get both features in one screw, but even with a given MFG that have used ECX, they have not been consistent in its use.
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For several years I’ve seen a lot of outdoor panel covers that are awkward to open & close, several brands. So that problem is growing, sounds like.
 
ptonsparky said:
CH tried some plastic covers on small 3R panels a few years ago. I quit buying them until they wised up and went back to metal. (I'm sure the changed back just because of me.🙄)
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I liked when their 3R blank hubs were a simple metal plate. Others (Midwest in particular) have begun to follow the plastic cap trend as well :(

Used to be able to improvise if you didn't have the hub you needed and drill a hole in the plate and install a myers hub.
 
I've had a few issues with the equipment ground and grounded conductor bar individual screws. They're either cross threaded or not threaded completely.
 
ptonsparky said:
The neutral bar setscrews in my garage panel felt like I was forming the threads as I tightened them. Not sure how that adds to the final torqued value.
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For several years now many Square D neutral and EGC bars have had terminal screws backed out part way. Not sure how they are keeping them from falling out when shipped, maybe a small amount of a thread lock compound? Once you turn it a little bit it usually turns more freely.
 
kwired said:
For several years now many Square D neutral and EGC bars have had terminal screws backed out part way. Not sure how they are keeping them from falling out when shipped, maybe a small amount of a thread lock compound? Once you turn it a little bit it usually turns more freely.
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Wasn't loose fasteners the reason for the SQ D recall?
 
Steve16 said:
I've had a few issues with the equipment ground and grounded conductor bar individual screws. They're either cross threaded or not threaded completely.
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That also seems more prominent lately, I use mostly Homeline panels, and I'd had a few neutral screws that I can't budge, the #2 square rounds out, then the flat strips off from there. So then I move to the next one and it works fine.
 
So when covid shortages happened it seams what any brand will put there name on and pass QC went down. No one was safe but the higher end the harder the fall I feel. Now at the moment new GE ground bars seem to be the most consistently threaded correctly then I'd say siemens and eaton are tied for second place. I don't like the eaton shortages though so guess what I've been using lately.
 
norcal said:
Wasn't loose fasteners the reason for the SQ D recall?
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If you are talking about the more recent recall involving plug on neural bus on QO panels kind of sort of they were torqued to proper value but were not making proper contact with what they were connecting.

I was told about this by someone that is at a full authorized Square D distributor, it was that small little lug that bonded the plug on neutral bus to the main neutral bus.


IIRC they did tap the hole where the set screw was to be installed but for some reason the tap wasn't being run far enough in and this led to the set screw requiring more torque to turn it and reaching the designed torque before it was fully against the plug on neutral bus it was making a connection to. So the set screw was tight but the connection wasn't.

Did not effect Homeline load centers because of design differences between them and the QO load centers and Homeline did not have the particular set screw that was having these issues.
 
kwired said:
If you are talking about the more recent recall involving plug on neural bus on QO panels kind of sort of they were torqued to proper value but were not making proper contact with what they were connecting.

I was told about this by someone that is at a full authorized Square D distributor, it was that small little lug that bonded the plug on neutral bus to the main neutral bus.


IIRC they did tap the hole where the set screw was to be installed but for some reason the tap wasn't being run far enough in and this led to the set screw requiring more torque to turn it and reaching the designed torque before it was fully against the plug on neutral bus it was making a connection to. So the set screw was tight but the connection wasn't.

Did not effect Homeline load centers because of design differences between them and the QO load centers and Homeline did not have the particular set screw that was having these issues.
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Nice to know. I tried several times to follow up on this issue last year before I shut down business entirely in December. The local QO wholesale house had not received any further details the last I had checked. They were frustrated with lack of support as well.
 
ptonsparky said:
Nice to know. I tried several times to follow up on this issue last year before I shut down business entirely in December. The local QO wholesale house had not received any further details the last I had checked. They were frustrated with lack of support as well.
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I have been frustrated with support on past Square D recalls myself. Had some I-line breakers that I received notification might be part of a recall, had to check date code to confirm. Then they wanted me to purchase replacements out of stock and they would presumably credit me once I returned the recalled ones. Took forever to get the credit, then sometime later some sort of audit on their side came up and they charged me for them again and had to go through some bull to get that reversed again.

I-line breakers bought from stock are not cheap. Originals were bought with the panel and ultimately were a lot less expensive when purchased that way.
 
I'm still waiting for a replacement QO panel for the cruddy one they sent me at the begining of Jan. I was told mid Jan for a replacement, then mid Feb, and now, wait for it...mid March!

In other words, the SH has no fricken clue as to when it's going to get there, and they're just throwing out a number.

I've been waiting since August for a 320A Milbank meter socket.

I really feel sorry for you guys on large projects waiting for big gear. I don't know how you're getting by. These supply chain issues are going to be catastrophic for the country and the economy.
 
ptonsparky said:
Nice to know. I tried several times to follow up on this issue last year before I shut down business entirely in December. The local QO wholesale house had not received any further details the last I had checked. They were frustrated with lack of support as well.
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At least once you know it you can chop a few threads off the screw instead of having to blind tap the hole. Provided that gives enough threads engaged.
 
VirutalElectrician said:
I'm still waiting for a replacement QO panel for the cruddy one they sent me at the begining of Jan. I was told mid Jan for a replacement, then mid Feb, and now, wait for it...mid March!

In other words, the SH has no fricken clue as to when it's going to get there, and they're just throwing out a number.

I've been waiting since August for a 320A Milbank meter socket.

I really feel sorry for you guys on large projects waiting for big gear. I don't know how you're getting by. These supply chain issues are going to be catastrophic for the country and the economy.
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I've been waiting for a QO330M200PRB since last September, I check every month and they tell me another month. I find it hard to believe they can't narrow it down better than that. I was told on another project that required a 320A milbank meter socket, the lead time was like 70 weeks, over a year! So if I were you I'd start looking around. I got lucky, my supplier had ordered a bunch prior to that so I got mine in decent time, lots of guys not so lucky.

I also installed a SqD DU322 disconnect today, one of the lugs I tightened it down and the lug twisted, I said that's odd. Took the lug screw out and the screw holding the lug down was a Phillips and had been stripped from the factory. Luckily, I only need 2 of the 3 poles so I got by. But what the heck man why does it seem like quality control is what everyone is skimping on? This is the wrong industry to be doing that in.
 
User Name said:
I've been waiting for a QO330M200PRB since last September, I check every month and they tell me another month. I find it hard to believe they can't narrow it down better than that. I was told on another project that required a 320A milbank meter socket, the lead time was like 70 weeks, over a year! So if I were you I'd start looking around. I got lucky, my supplier had ordered a bunch prior to that so I got mine in decent time, lots of guys not so lucky.

I also installed a SqD DU322 disconnect today, one of the lugs I tightened it down and the lug twisted, I said that's odd. Took the lug screw out and the screw holding the lug down was a Phillips and had been stripped from the factory. Luckily, I only need 2 of the 3 poles so I got by. But what the heck man why does it seem like quality control is what everyone is skimping on? This is the wrong industry to be doing that in.
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Might be that there is more pressure to get items out the door more recently and that leads to less emphasis on QC?
 
Today I purchased a Square D Homeline 100A breaker in clampshell packaging from Home Depot. Bolts looked like they were marked up even though the package wasn't open. When I did open it I realized the 2 bolts were different lengths and one of the flat head bolts wasn't cut out deep enough for a flat head screwdriver to sit in and grab. I don't usually use Square D but had to this time as it's what was existing. Only wasted an hour of my time.
 
At work we have all been calling it CQC parts. "Covid Quality Control" as we have been experiencing lots of quality issues from various manufacturers. Just yesterday we had a new siemens 2 pole GFCI breaker that we broke the neutral screw head in two trying to loosen it so we could hook up our wires. I didn't think you could tighten a screw on a 20a breaker that hard without stripping it out.
 
SSDriver said:
At work we have all been calling it CQC parts. "Covid Quality Control" as we have been experiencing lots of quality issues from various manufacturers. Just yesterday we had a new siemens 2 pole GFCI breaker that we broke the neutral screw head in two trying to loosen it so we could hook up our wires. I didn't think you could tighten a screw on a 20a breaker that hard without stripping it out.
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Yes, everyone is using the "covid" excuse as a reason for poor quality and poor customer service. I'm getting a little sick of it.

However, it's apparently working for these manufacturers. Obviously there's not enough customers rejecting their crap (Who's going to delay their house build because the panel door is scratched, doesn't fit correctly, or because you had to eat 2 hours of labor on a $30,000 job to make it all right?) therefore as far as they are concerned, the new Covid business model is successful to them.
 
SSDriver said:
At work we have all been calling it CQC parts. "Covid Quality Control" as we have been experiencing lots of quality issues from various manufacturers. Just yesterday we had a new siemens 2 pole GFCI breaker that we broke the neutral screw head in two trying to loosen it so we could hook up our wires. I didn't think you could tighten a screw on a 20a breaker that hard without stripping it out.
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Back in the early 80s, if you tried to loosen a screw on the neutral bar of a new QO panel with a 3/16” screwdriver, the screwdriver blade would break about half the time. You had to use 1/4” blade screwdriver. That was before they went to Robertson drive.
 
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