Starbucks

Status
Not open for further replies.
raider1

raider1

Senior Member
Staff member
Location
Logan, Utah
I would like to get opinions on if a Starbucks is a commercial kitchen in regard to 210.8(B)(2).

Is making coffee "food preparation and cooking"? Can commercial coffee brewing equipment, that is cord and plug connected, be permanent facilities for food preparation and cooking?

Chris
 
Chris, this is strictly my opinion. Yes.

IMO, I think this type of place is one of the locations intended to be covered.

There are a lot of grounded metal objects that the employees can come in contact with at the same time as contacting other equipment with a fault.

Because of the frequent moving of equipment the cords, plugs or receptacles tend to get damaged.

JMO, Bob
 
Out here in Seattle we have a saying
"Friends don't let friends buy coffee at Starbucks"
IMO they have the worst coffee. Its overroasted, oily and bitter. I get flavored lattes and they only have 4 flavors.
Our local wholesale grocery supply has 64ft of shelving with flavored syrups.
But I would say they are a kitchen.
 
ryan_618 said:
I am the only person I know that eats coffee.
Click to expand...

I know I sure ate my coffee this morning, I was spitting out grounds all day.:D

iwire, I use to think I knew the answer to this question, but after thinking about it I am not so sure. I am leaning towards you interpratation that this is a commercial kitchen.

Chris
 
It certainly does get murky trying to pin down what is a kitchen.

I just don't get Starbucks, bad coffee , high price, serve yourself and an attitude from the staff that is condescending.
 
ryan_618 said:
I am the only person I know that eats coffee.
Click to expand...

My wife says I inhale mine!:cool:

IMO it is kitchen. I didn't think so at first because they do no cooking as I think of cooking but then we have Soup facilities which do no more than heat liquid in some cases; which are considered kitchens. Starbucks heats liquid with an additive the same way these Soup facilities do.

I'd probably be willing to listen to what the AHJ wants in this instance.
 
Kitchen definition

Kitchen definition

"210.8(B)(2)
a kitchen is an area with a sink an permanent facilities for food preparation and cooking."

1. do they have sinks behind the counter?
2. it has been mentioned that the coffee pots are cord and plug connected
3. do they actually cook food there with permanent facilities?
NOTE: are permanent facilities described as facilities that stay in one place all the time?


To stir this post a little ;) , I am going to say from what little I know about Starbucks - I have only been in one... that this is by definition not a kitchen. Whatever the intent may have been, we need to go by the actual wording.

Bob
I understand that the cords get damaged, and most of the equipment may be stainless steel, but the addition of GFCI protection at this point is a design aspect, not a code aspect.
 
Michael Johnston submitted a proposal to add the definition of kitchen to article 100 of the 2008 cycle.
In the proposal it is worded just as it is in 210.8(B)(2)
 
starbucks must be doing something right look at thier annual report. I heve never ever been to a starbucks and served by anyone condescending. they are always very helpfull pleasant and thier customer service is the NOrdstrom of coffee shops.
 
3. do they actually cook food there with permanent facilities?
NOTE: are permanent facilities described as facilities that stay in one place all the time?

In order to answer these questions we have to have more definitions. If you heat a bowl of soup in a microwave, are you cooking?

Is milk food? If you heat milk are you cooking food?

They do have sinks behind the counter. They do heat milk and coffee.

This is like so many things. I don't know it sounds like a kitchen to me, but I am willing to let AHJ make the call.:smile:
 
jwelectric said:
Michael Johnston submitted a proposal to add the definition of kitchen to article 100 of the 2008 cycle.
In the proposal it is worded just as it is in 210.8(B)(2)
Click to expand...

It is passing at this point, but I am going to make a comment so it doesn't. The term "kitchen" is only used in Article 210, which means it must be defined in that Article. Article 100 can only contain the definitions of terms used in more than one Article. I haven't searched yet, but I am pretty sure kitchen is only used in 210.
 
ryan_618 said:
It is passing at this point, but I am going to make a comment so it doesn't. The term "kitchen" is only used in Article 210, which means it must be defined in that Article. Article 100 can only contain the definitions of terms used in more than one Article. I haven't searched yet, but I am pretty sure kitchen is only used in 210.
Click to expand...

210.8 - 210.52 - 550.12 - 550.13 ? 551.41 ? 552.41 and 720.7 all uses the word kitchen. Being that the word Kitchen is used in more than three Articles I believe that it is fitting to have a definition in Article 100
 
In Washington State (home of Starbucks) we have a state code rule that states any wet location requires GFCI.
And really, all we are discussing here is GFCI or not for the "kitchen" receptacles.
We also have a state rule that defines a kitchen as an area used for food and beverage preperation.
 
Pierre C Belarge said:
Bob
I understand that the cords get damaged, and most of the equipment may be stainless steel, but the addition of GFCI protection at this point is a design aspect, not a code aspect.
Click to expand...

That is your opinion, which is as valid as mine. :)
 
Last edited:
tom baker said:
We also have a state rule that defines a kitchen as an area used for food and beverage preperation.
Click to expand...

Hey! That's too simple and directly-to-the-point. The code-makers will never go for it.
 
petersonra said:
If all they are doing is making coffee, IMO it is no more a kitchen than an office with a coffee pot in the corner is a kitchen.
Click to expand...

Have you ever heated milk for hot chocolate or a sick child?
Where are these things typically done? How about cooking up (heating) some chicken soup?

I like WA definition of kitchen.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top