Strapping of EMT

Status
Not open for further replies.
Re: Strapping of EMT

and exactly how often is the tie made on ceiling stucco. it is every few inches per joist, not here and there. i have built as i climbed rebar walls, standing on what i just tied. i hated to climb walls started by others as there were often weak areas where the bars just gave way. never saw 18 tie wire, #16 is pretty thin.

paul :cool:
 
Re: Strapping of EMT

Paul,
All of the ceiling tie wire that I saw used was #18. Here is part of a ceiling supplier's catalog.
UNIMAST Tie Wire and Hanger Wire
Tie wire is 18 gauge galvanized steel wire used in drywall/plaster to the furring channel to runners and in plaster to tie metal lath to channel. Hanger wire is 8 gauge galvanized steel for hanging channels in drywall/plaster suspended ceilings
Click to expand...
 
Re: Strapping of EMT

Interesting digression on AHJ instead of tie wire.
Click to expand...
Oh, sorry, I must have stumbled into the wrong room. I was looking for abuse! :D
Hail Monty Python! :D

[ January 04, 2005, 01:41 AM: Message edited by: georgestolz ]
 
Re: Strapping of EMT

the steel framework is supposed to be supported by the #8, not #18.

#16 is probably too thick to get thru lathe. attachment said the 18 is for the lathe to channel, not the structure. the 18 gets buried in the plaster and cannot untie without a force close to breaking.

#8 is plenty strong even with 1/2 ties

still do not see this as conduit support. poly-glue is plenty strong as well, so is duct tape.

paul :)
 
Re: Strapping of EMT

just the product lit as posted.

i assume you can read. having a bad season?
can't sleep? drinking too much? get kicked out of bed??

:)
 
Re: Strapping of EMT

Originally posted by apauling:
just the product lit as posted.

i assume you can read. having a bad season?
can't sleep? drinking too much? get kicked out of bed??

:)
Click to expand...
I am getting ready for work, here on the east coast it is 4:30 AM.

Why do you ask?
 
Re: Strapping of EMT

I saw your post at 0 hundred and 59 my time. Good morning Bob, I'm going to bed now! :)

Editted because I shouldn't even be up.

[ January 04, 2005, 04:43 AM: Message edited by: physis ]
 
Re: Strapping of EMT

Paul,
the steel framework is supposed to be supported by the #8, not #18.
Click to expand...
Yes, the #18 supports the lath and the plaster. Just like using the #18 to fasten the conduit to a fixed support.
Don
 
Re: Strapping of EMT

this is like using cheap sheetrock screws to support boxes. can't wait to run across it so I can fail it. the number 18 is tied numerous times in a small area. once every so often is the larger wire. but as always, you won't change until it becomes painful, neither will i.

i'll wait until i have to inspect it before i waste anymore time on it.

paul :)
 
Re: Strapping of EMT

Paul,
this is like using cheap sheetrock screws to support boxes. can't wait to run across it so I can fail it.
Click to expand...
and what will you cite as the reason? Are you looking for a listed screw? :roll:

Roger
 
Re: Strapping of EMT

As far as twisting the wire and snapping it...what about driving a tek screww into the steel stud and stripping it(overdriving). How do you know that it's not about to break loose.

I don't understand what the big deal is????
Just how much pull out / shear strength are you looking for?? How much is really needed???

The fastener, be it wire, ty-raps or straps, need only be strong enough to support the weight of the item.

I think I'm looking at this from a practical standpoint, but please point out if I'm missing something.

edit because I hit the wrong button

[ January 04, 2005, 10:36 AM: Message edited by: sandsnow ]
 
Re: Strapping of EMT

Larry,

I like the turn of thought in your post. :)

Reverse engineer a strap. Consider it mounted to a surface that is really hard and the strap is fastened by something really sturdy and then imagine the effort necessary to bend open the strap while one is gripping the pipe 3 or 4 feet away. A one-hole stamped steel EMT strap is pretty flimsy, in that setting.

Then consider the one-hole EMT strap mounted on a drywall surface, directly to the framing beneath the surface. Bend the EMT the same way as my first example, and the flat of the strap will gouge the drywall with almost no effort at all, and allowing the EMT to come loose, even without straightening the bent part of the strap. Yet, in my experience, a one-hole strap on drywall is an approved support, good for all the inspectors I have known.

Now, in my thought experiment, compare a tie wire support on rough framing to a one-hole EMT strap on drywall. . .in my opinion, that one-hole strap is really flimsy.

I second Larry's exclamation.
I don't understand what the big deal is????
Click to expand...
 
Re: Strapping of EMT

Kind of neutral on this tie wire thing but I thought I would take a look. If you go to the web at www.ul.com and search for tie wire, you are taken to 1565 positioning devices and this is the first paragraph.

1.1 This standard applies to those metallic and nonmetallic devices used for positioning - which may include bundling and securing - or to a limited extent supporting cable, wire, conduit, or tubing of a wiring system in electrical installations, to reduce the risk of fire, electric shock, or injury to persons. This standard applies to, but is not limited to, cable ties, cable tie mounting blocks, cable clamps, cable and conduit clips, and non-raceway ducts.

So UL must consider tie wire as a positioning device (or support) for conduit. Which is how my local inspector has interpreted it in the past. The local inspector has many different interpretations of the code, but using tie wire for positioning has always been allowed in moderation of course.
An example of what he considers positioning would be running EMT on top of the bottom flute of a bar joist and using tie wire to support the conduit. This really is not support because the bar joist is the support and the tie wire only holds the conduit in place or in position. Running the conduit under the flute or anything else for that matter and using tie wire for sole support he states is a no no?because tie wire is listed for positioning only.
Thanks to you guys and this thread I now know that my inspector may know what he is talking about! Come on guy's you just made my inspector right, thats not fair!
 
Re: Strapping of EMT

Originally posted by guesseral:
Running the conduit under the flute or anything else for that matter and using tie wire for sole support he states is a no no?because tie wire is listed for positioning only.
Click to expand...
Interesting as that is what the listing for most caddy clips are.

"For positioning only"

Go figure now we can't even use caddy clips. :D
 
Re: Strapping of EMT

Not sure about the positioning only listing for caddy products, but the common 812M24 and 812M24SM are listed on the UL web site and the caddy book gives them a static load rating of either 75 lbs or 25 lbs depending on the type, doesn't sound like positioning to me.

But my point was there seems to be an indication that tie wire is atleast referenced the UL web site and there is reference to conduit in the same place.

Seems like this thread keeps getting off of the tie wire question, to many related items.

Well work is over, Ill have to see where this issue goes in the morning. Nite!
 
Re: Strapping of EMT

Here is some food for thought, we use these supports for MC sometimes when the job specs exclude tie wraps.
CADDY? "Colorado Jim" Cable Support

Notice they are called supports but are listed for positioning only.

The opening post asked about using tie wire to secure EMT in metal stud walls.

Many people say no way, tie wire is not listed you need to use the 'correct' support.

Please go to the following link and look over the product.

CADDY? CS812 Screw On Conduit Support

It is not listed at all, here is another

CADDY? Conduit Support

and another
CADDY? Cable/Conduit From Drop Wire Support

and another
CADDY? Conduit Clamps with Bolts

Any inspector I know would accept any of these products although I do not see anything telling us they have any listing at all.

If Caddy paid an NTL to list these products I think they would be sure to mention it in the cut sheets.

IMO this comes down to what Roger has said in the past, inspectors using 'listing' as a crutch to do their job for them.

All that should matter is the raceway is secure and as has been so eloquently stated previously a typical 1 hole EMT strap attached to dry wall is easily bent and loosened but is acceptable every day of the week.

Not even worth commenting on the inspector that wants to fail an installation for using drywall screws, obviously that kind of inspector is just on a power trip. :roll:

[ January 04, 2005, 06:28 PM: Message edited by: iwire ]
 
Re: Strapping of EMT

Since when is there a problem over drywall screws ? I have about 5 lbs of them holding MC straps on a building we just passed rough on a few days ago
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top