Sub-panel in garage dwelling require main

[celtic]

I'm also going to provide Stallcup picture on how to apply rule 225 to commercial job. also Ray Mulllin residential wiring book with over 400 Residential code rules that apply to residential wiring no items listing 225 rule and a garge wriing in residential book with 614 pages .
These documents will be provide to the Judge to add his discision , what are
you going provide to show rule 225 dose apply to residential garage wiriing ??

I'll draw my own picture.

Just because an author has a published book of OPINIONS does not make his OPINION any more valid than my OPINION.

After we get past the Crayola portion of the trial, I'll cite the articles contained in my post #11 ....and you will have????

 

[Sparky555]

I'll draw my own picture.
After we get past the Crayola portion of the trial

LOL:grin:

When the evidence and experience stack up against you, try a handyman forum.

 

[celtic]

LOL:grin:

When the evidence and experience stack up against you, try a handyman forum.

Are you saying 225 does not apply to resi.?

 

[charlie]

. . . also Ray Mulllin residential wiring book with over 400 Residential code rules that apply to residential wiring no items listing 225 rule and a garage wiring in residential book with 614 pages . . .

Since you are rather fond of Ray and his residential book, take a look on page 569 at Figure 27-37 (I assume you have a copy of the 2008 Edition). Granted, Ray is discussing the proper grounding but the Figure shows the main panelboard in the house with a feeder to a second building (garage). The panelboard in the garage has a main disconnecting means in it, as required by Article 225.

By the way, you will find my name in the front of his book on page xxv and also in the front of the NEC on page 70-14. When you have so many guys telling you the same thing, maybe you need to look at yourself. Believe me, you are not looking at the NEC correctly.

 

[augie47]

When I have nightmares they revolve aroud coming to the office and picking up a request for inspection for "John1" s.
"Don't confuse me with facts, my mind is made up!"

 

[john1]

Roger

Roger

sorry that answer won't win in court . I onlly want answer that are code article to win in court ,code article that tell me I need a main in panel at garage at a dwelling .
you are a code moderator you should give code article to defend your position get Mike to Help you

 

[roger]

sorry that answer won't win in court . I onlly want answer that are code article to win in court

You won't find one.

code article that tell me I need a main in panel at garage at a dwelling .

You have been told already

you are a code moderator you should give code article to defend your position get Mike to Help you

I already have as well as others have, the bottom line is, the inspector is right.

Roger

 

[Dennis Alwon]

sorry that answer won't win in court . I onlly want answer that are code article to win in court ,code article that tell me I need a main in panel at garage at a dwelling .
you are a code moderator you should give code article to defend your position get Mike to Help you

John, you have come in here as a new member and seem to want to attack everyone. The members have been at this a long time and I can tell you they know what they are talking about. Why the chip on the shoulder? Why the attacks against those that are trying to help.

In court nothing is sacred. You can have every code article in the world and you may still lose because the code has words that can be distorted or interpreted in many ways.

I will not get into the actual question for I believe it has been answered many times correctly.

 

[celtic]

sorry that answer won't win in court .

So now you're a judge as well as as an "Instructor".:wink:

With any luck, maybe you can get nominated to the supreme court.

 

[stickboy1375]

John, I know its not easy to admit when your wrong, but get over it, it happens to all of us, now learn something and move on.

 

[JohnJ0906]

john1, I can't find that you ever answered the question, Is this an attached garage, or a detached garage?

 

[charlie]

john1, I can't find that you ever answered the question, Is this an attached garage, or a detached garage?

John1 has not, Dennis made the assumption and the rest of us also assumed a detached garage. :smile:

 

[Aledrell]

225.32 Exception 1

225.32 Exception 1

I think you could make the point that though the garage is detached that the building falls under exception 1 SINGLE managment (one owner/entity)

225.32 Location Exception #1 -- For Istallations under single management, where documented safe switching procedures are established and maintained for disconnection, and where the installation is monitored by qualified individuals, the disconnecting means shall be permitted to be located elsewhereon the premises.


Well your a qualified individual, so make a plaque of some kind mount it above the panel stating where disconnect means are located. :grin:

 

[Dennis Alwon]

John1 has not, Dennis made the assumption and the rest of us also assumed a detached garage. :smile:

John did mention art. 225 in his first post. If I am wrong in my assumption then I apologize.

 

[George Stolz]

If this winds up being an attached garage, I'll expect an apology from John for not clarifying that.

Looking back at the first page, I think that's the case.

 

[dnem]

I think you could make the point that though the garage is detached that the building falls under exception 1 SINGLE managment (one owner/entity)

225.32 Location Exception #1 -- For Istallations under single management, where documented safe switching procedures are established and maintained for disconnection, and where the installation is monitored by qualified individuals, the disconnecting means shall be permitted to be located elsewhereon the premises.


Well your a qualified individual, so make a plaque of some kind mount it above the panel stating where disconnect means are located. :grin:

I wish you hadn't brought in this additional confusion.
225.32Ex1 says
"where documented safe switching procedures are established and maintained"
"monitored by qualified individuals"

This is not an industrial plant so forget 225.32Ex1. . Were talking about a residential garage.

 

[iwire]

forget 225.32Ex1. . Were talking about a residential garage.

I agree, that exception should never be used at a dwelling unit.

 

[dnem]

sorry that answer won't win in court . I onlly want answer that are code article to win in court ,code article that tell me I need a main in panel at garage at a dwelling .

"..... need a main ....."
It's actually 1 to 6 disconnects that are needed. . 225.36Ex1 is an exception to the general rule [225.36] which requires a rating of "suitable for use as service disconnect". . The 1 to 6 disconnects still applies in all situations and the snap switches, stated in the exception, are counted toward that total.

225.36Ex is an exception to 225.36.
225.36Ex is not an exception to 225.31 or 225.32
225.38Ex is an exception to 225.38.
225.38Ex is not an exception to 225.31 or 225.32


"..... main in panel at garage at a dwelling ."
The "main" at the dwelling is the required overcurrent. . Don't mix up main/building disconnect with main/building overcurrent.

The overcurrent for the second building/garage and the conductors supplying that building are in the dwelling.
"code article to win in court", 240.21
The 1 to 6 disconnects for the second building/garage must be in the second building/garage itself.
"code article to win in court", 225.32 + 225.33

O.K. I give up , let stop the talk and do the action. I'm Electrical inspector
you are a electrical inspector we are going to court
I'm going to state you are violating house bill 175 abusing your authority
provide document NEC 2008 page 70-71 225.36 except 225 dose not apply
page 225.38 exception rule dos not apply to garage. I'm also going to provide Stallcup picture on how to apply rule 225 to commercial job. also Ray Mulllin residential wiring book with over 400 Residential code rules that apply to residential wiring no items listing 225 rule and a garge wiring in residential book with 614 pages .
These documents will be provide to the Judge to aid his discision , what are
you going provide to show rule 225 dose apply to residential garage wiriing ??

"225.36 except 225 dose not apply
page 225.38 exception rule dos not apply to garage."
225.1 tells you to follow everything in 225 for power run between buildings.
225.36Ex + 225.38Ex apply and are counted toward your 1 to 6 disconnect limit.
As others have told you, snap switches have an amperage limit, so if you supply the building with a feeder than is larger than the amp rating of the snap switch, then your snap switch is in violation.

"Ray Mulllin residential wiring book with over 400 Residential code rules that apply to residential wiring no items listing 225 rule and a garge wiring in residential book with 614 pages ."
"code article to win in court" ? . Ray Mullin isn't code !
No matter what Ray Mullins says, the code section is 225.1

"These documents will be provide to the Judge to aid his discision , what are
you going provide to show rule 225 dose apply to residential garage wiriing ??"
The judge will check with Ohio law that lists the National Electrical Code as state law and does not list Ray Mullin as state law.
NEC wins, he'll rule according to 225.1 which states that the other parts of 225 also apply.

 

[celtic]

NEC wins, he'll rule according to 225.1 which states that the other parts of 225 also apply.

Oh sure....get out the color-by-numbers water-colors set and leave me with the Crayolas....show-off!






Helluva answer dmen

 

[Sparky555]

Are you saying 225 does not apply to resi.?

I'm saying that the OP has been answered with some of the best information I've EVER seen & he doesn't like the answers.