Sub-panel in garage dwelling require main

[john1]

Where the code artilce that tell me I need a main for sub-panel

Where the code artilce that tell me I need a main for sub-panel

All you guy just talk , talk mean nothing to me ,to win a court just one of you guys give me a NEC article that tell me a I need another 60 amp CB at the
garage for a sub-panel main at single family dwelling when I already have one at the home , why do I need another at a detach garage where your
brains and knowledge of the NEC. Find one good article to prove what you
say or end it . Talk is nothing prove your statement with a code article or stop talking and that mean you Roger. Have a good day guys you already made mine.

 

[stickboy1375]

All you guy just talk , talk mean nothing to me ,to win a court just one of you guys give me a NEC article that tell me a I need another 60 amp CB at the
garage for a sub-panel main at single family dwelling when I already have one at the home , why do I need another at a detach garage where your
brains and knowledge of the NEC. Find one good article to prove what you
say or end it . Talk is nothing prove your statement with a code article or stop talking and that mean you Roger. Have a good day guys you already made mine.

Buddie,
225.31 is the requirement
225.32 is the location of the requirement
225.36 requires the disconnect to be suitable for Service Equipment
225.39 is the Rating of the Disconnect

Anything else you need me to look up for ya pal?

This section is not hard to grasp, at least for most of us.

 

[augie47]

I've been a member, contributor and admirer of this Forum for many years and this is the first time I have looked for some way to "block" a member's posts.
please guys, DON'T FEED THE TROLL.
He's been shown the way and refuses to listen.

 

[iwire]

All you guy just talk , talk mean nothing to me ,to win a court

Good luck with that court thing, I am sure it will be worth every dollar you spend on it.

 

[roger]

Talk is nothing prove your statement with a code article or stop talking and that mean you Roger. Have a good day guys you already made mine.

Hi John, love you too. :grin:

Roger

 

[Jljohnson]

I have never seen the correct answer denied so many consecutive times in all my years in this forum. The code sections that prove that the inspector is CORRECT have been listed for you several times, have you picked up your book and read those sections yet? Start with 225.32, then move on to the rest of the articles that have been cited.
We are trying to help you understand this issue, regardless of what you think of our answers. Please remember, YOU came to us for help, don't shoot the messenger. Bottom line talk... a) your inspector (and the forum members here) are correct- you need a main breaker in the garage panel. b) Even if you believe us ALL to be wrong, a 2-pole 60 amp breaker, backfed in the panel, and the breaker retaining clip required to make the backfeeding legal will cost you around $10 to $12 bucks. A court battle with the building department will cost you how much?
Enough said?
Jim

 

[Dennis Alwon]

give me an NEC article that tell me a I need another 60 amp CB at the garage for a sub-panel main at single family dwelling when I already have one at the home

We can't give you an article that says you need another 60 at the detached garage. We already said you could either have one main disco (does not have to be a breaker) or you must have six throws of the hand. Read art. 225.33 (A) of the 2008 NEC

225.33 Maximum Number of Disconnects.
(A) General. The disconnecting means for each supply permitted by 225.30 shall consist of not more than six switches or six circuit breakers mounted in a single enclosure, in a group of separate enclosures, or in or on a switchboard. There shall be no more than six disconnects per supply grouped in any one location.
Exception: For the purposes of this section, disconnecting means used solely for the control circuit of the ground-fault protection system, or the control circuit of the power-operated supply disconnecting means, installed as part of the listed equipment, shall not be considered a supply disconnecting means.

So-- if you feed the garage with a 60 amp wire you could have a Safety switch as a disconnect that would then feed a panel or you could have a non fused disco that feeds another panel or you can have a panel with a main breaker or you can have a panel with 6 sp breakers.

No one ever said you needed a 60 amp breaker at the house and at the garage.

 

[stickboy1375]

We can't give you an article that says you need another 60 at the detached garage. We already said you could either have one main disco (does not have to be a breaker) or you must have six throws of the hand. Read art. 225.33 (A) of the 2008 NEC



So-- if you feed the garage with a 60 amp wire you could have a Safety switch as a disconnect that would then feed a panel or you could have a non fused disco that feeds another panel or you can have a panel with a main breaker or you can have a panel with 6 sp breakers.

No one ever said you needed a 60 amp breaker at the house and at the garage.

Well said Dennis. I went the round about way.

 

[steelersman]

Well sort of. A detached garage needs a main or six throws to disconnect the structure-- same as a service. You may have an amendment.

225.30 says nothing about a main. 225.33

Dennis. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if and only if your sub-panel has 6 or fewer circuit breakers with just a main lug panel not main breaker this would meet the requirement correct? And of course your OCPD is coming from the main panel allowing you to just use a main lug sub panel only since you have 6 or fewer breakers in it.

Hey this guy is more ruthless than I was on that one thread about the 3-ways using a shared neutral.

 

[stickboy1375]

Dennis. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if and only if your sub-panel has 6 or fewer circuit breakers with just a main lug panel not main breaker this would meet the requirement correct? And of course your OCPD is coming from the main panel allowing you to just use a main lug sub panel only since you have 6 or fewer breakers in it.

Every panel I've ever installed wanted a main breaker if not used as a power panel to qualify as "Suitable for Service Equipment" IMO, a main breaker panel is the cheapest easiest fix for this.

 

[charlie]

I can't believe it, this guy is an instructor or so he says. This means that his mind has been made up for a long time and he has been teaching his students wrong for a long time already. He doesn't want to eat a little crow and admit he is wrong. He will have a group of students in Ohio that believe he is correct and will be upset when they will collect their own red tags in the future. :roll:

 

[steelersman]

Every panel I've ever installed wanted a main breaker if not used as a power panel to qualify as "Suitable for Service Equipment" IMO, a main breaker panel is the cheapest easiest fix for this.

so aren't main lug sub-panels suitable for service equipment?

 

[steelersman]

I can't believe it, this guy is an instructor or so he says. This means that his mind has been made up for a long time and he has been teaching his students wrong for a long time already. He doesn't want to eat a little crow and admit he is wrong. He will have a group of students in Ohio that believe he is correct and will be upset when they will collect their own red tags in the future. :roll:

the guy has a point about it being unfair for the inspector to require a main breaker in the sub IMO because he could use a non-fusible disconnect and be done, especially if it is only a 60 amp feeder a 60 amp non fused disco is dirt cheap.

 

[roger]

I can't believe it, this guy is an instructor or so he says. This means that his mind has been made up for a long time and he has been teaching his students wrong for a long time already. He doesn't want to eat a little crow and admit he is wrong. He will have a group of students in Ohio that believe he is correct and will be upset when they will collect their own red tags in the future. :roll:

I have been thinking the same thing since he started arguing.

Roger

 

[celtic]

For all his yammering about "winning in court", maybe he's attempting a test run here to see how poorly he will perform at his trial as the defendant

 

[don_resqcapt19]

so aren't main lug sub-panels suitable for service equipment?

You have to read the listing information about the panel. Some are listed as suitable for use with up to 6 breakers, for others the listing requires a main.

 

[john1]

Roger

Roger

Roger your answer put a smile on my face , I like it. for the guys who think the inspector is right here what you agree to .
The electrical inspector is forcing electrical contractor to put (2) 60 amp 2 pole circuit breaker in series , 20 feet apart to protect one MLO panel. one at the main at the house and one a the MLO panel in the garage claiming the garage because it is detach require another main . I log onto the code forum
for first time thinking I would get some good code article to show the inspector to be wrong for requiring (2) 60 amp 2 pole circuit breaker for one
main lug panel at a single family dwellling garage . I didn't get anything what I thought I was going to get , I got more shop talk then code article so I have decide to not use the code formu for my important items so I will thanks
for nothing and bye.

 

[celtic]

TRANSLATION:
I didn't get the answer I wanted, so I'm taking my ball and going home!

 

[roger]

Roger your answer put a smile on my face , I like it. for the guys who think the inspector is right here what you agree to .
The electrical inspector is forcing electrical contractor to put (2) 60 amp 2 pole circuit breaker in series , 20 feet apart to protect one MLO panel. one at the main at the house and one a the MLO panel in the garage claiming the garage because it is detach require another main . I log onto the code forum
for first time thinking I would get some good code article to show the inspector to be wrong for requiring (2) 60 amp 2 pole circuit breaker for one
main lug panel at a single family dwellling garage . I didn't get anything what I thought I was going to get , I got more shop talk then code article so I have decide to not use the code formu for my important items so I will thanks
for nothing and bye.

Well, I don't think anyone here will be able to help you with your reading skills so, bye.

Roger

 

[roger]

Since John1 has left the thread and all the correct article sections have been pointed out time and time again, I am closing it.

Thanks to all who responded to the OP's question.

Roger