"subject to physical damage"

[sameguy]

See that all the time and have installed like that on my mothers house. Windows, service must be x" from windows; poco in N.Y. Tells you where they will hit the house.

 

[K8MHZ]

See that all the time and have installed like that on my mothers house. Windows, service must be x" from windows; poco in N.Y. Tells you where they will hit the house.

Here the rule is for the open conductors to be at least 3' from an openable window. Neither pipe nor SE cable are considered open conductors, just the single conductors in the pipe or cable.

 

[kwired]

Here the rule is for the open conductors to be at least 3' from an openable window. Neither pipe nor SE cable are considered open conductors, just the single conductors in the pipe or cable.

That is NEC rules. Some places may have amendments, POCO requirements, other codes, or just plain ignorance

 

[david]

Why are we allowing the term "subject to physical damage" to be openly interpreted?

The term is used when the code deliberately intends that an inspector evaluate the environmental concerns that could likely cause a wiring method physical damage

There is another term the code uses when the NEC takes the evaluation of the surrounding conditions away from the inspectors judgments as to what might merit physical protection

The code then calls for mechanical protection of a wiring method it also under those conditions specifically calls out the wiring methods that would qualify as providing physical protection of the electrical system

Edit Consider NM Cable in an Unfinished Residential garage. It may very well depend on how the NM cable is run as to it needing protection or not

 

[hbiss]

Why is this an epic fail? In many places this is code compliant.

Oh it's code compliant, it just looks like you know what. Only critical part of this is that the point of attachment and drip loop must be at least 3 feet from from that window which threw this guy for a loop and made him go through all those contortions. He could have dropped straight down to the meter pan which can be next to the window. Next, he should have installed the panel in the unfinished basement over to the right more so the SE could drop straight down from the bottom of the meter pan and enter the sill above the basement window. Here, the unwritten rule is 5 feet inside before it hits the panel.

Everything in one line. It's called planning!

This house is listed at just shy of 1 mil. I would expect crap work like that on a 250K flipper.

Now I see that the builder planted a tree in front of that mess so it's not so noticeable from the street. hmy:

I guess my point to all this and to be on-topic is that sometimes installers take liberties with SE because it's easy to work with. If that had to be a pipe service you wouldn't see all those bends.

-Hal

 

[kwired]

Oh it's code compliant, it just looks like you know what. Only critical part of this is that the point of attachment and drip loop must be at least 3 feet from from that window which threw this guy for a loop and made him go through all those contortions. He could have dropped straight down to the meter pan which can be next to the window. Next, he should have installed the panel in the unfinished basement over to the right more so the SE could drop straight down from the bottom of the meter pan and enter the sill above the basement window. Here, the unwritten rule is 5 feet inside before it hits the panel.

Everything in one line. It's called planning!

This house is listed at just shy of 1 mil. I would expect crap work like that on a 250K flipper.

Now I see that the builder planted a tree in front of that mess so it's not so noticeable from the street. hmy:

I guess my point to all this and to be on-topic is that sometimes installers take liberties with SE because it's easy to work with. If that had to be a pipe service you wouldn't see all those bends.

-Hal

If it is a million dollar house, I'd expect to see underground supply. We put in a lot of underground supplies even on 250k and less homes. Just looks cleaner overall not to have anymore then necessary on the outside of the house.

My house and many others I have done where meter isn't on the house - service raceway is under the basement floor and emerges into mechanical room somewhat centralized in the house. Only thing electrical on exterior is luminaires and receptacles. Don't even have an outside air conditioner unit, but that is because I have geothermal heat pump.

 

[jap]

but that is because I have geothermal heat pump.

You just had to throw that in,,,, didn't you.


JAP>

 

[kwired]

You just had to throw that in,,,, didn't you.


JAP>

Yes, I really like the thing also. Quiet and efficient.

 

[hbiss]

If it is a million dollar house, I'd expect to see underground supply.

Thank you. I originally thought that's what they were going to do. It's only about 35 feet to the pole and the builder had a backhoe on the site all the time.

That's why I never do new houses. Builder always has some trunk slammer that will do the job for half what I would charge.

-Hal

 

[kwired]

Thank you. I originally thought that's what they were going to do. It's only about 35 feet to the pole and the builder had a backhoe on the site all the time.

That's why I never do new houses. Builder always has some trunk slammer that will do the job for half what I would charge.

-Hal

That is why you need to work for the owner and not the builder as much as possible You can bet the builder still made some of your profits if he got trunk slammer to do some of your work.

Now if you bid to do the underground and they want to dig a trench for you - I was going to say let them, but then you might get a 12 inch deep trench when you wanted 3 feet:huh:

 

[hbiss]

1) House is spec. For sale by builder.
2) I just don't put the cable in until I'm happy with it. I would have no problem standing there with a tape measure while he digs.

-Hal

 

[roger]

1) House is spec. For sale by builder.
2) I just don't put the cable in until I'm happy with it. I would have no problem standing there with a tape measure while he digs.

-Hal

Same here. Wired a multitude of spec houses and worked out a lot of deals with the GC's and other subs. For instance, we might agree to drill some holes for the plumber in exchange for them doing some excavation or ditches for us.


Roger

 

[kwired]

Same here. Wired a multitude of spec houses and worked out a lot of deals with the GC's and other subs. For instance, we might agree to drill some holes for the plumber in exchange for them doing some excavation or ditches for us.


Roger

Now you are putting yourself on other side of situation I mentioned before, you need to drill the holes in the right place, just like they need to dig your ditch the right depth. They may not be happy if you drill holes for a drain pipe and don't slope it correctly and/or don't get them in straight enough line.

 

[roger]

Now you are putting yourself on other side of situation I mentioned before, you need to drill the holes in the right place, just like they need to dig your ditch the right depth. They may not be happy if you drill holes for a drain pipe and don't slope it correctly and/or don't get them in straight enough line.

A little conversation before you start has a way of solving those problems.

Roger

 

[cowboyjwc]

SE cable is a chapter 3 wiring method...
Again make a code propsal. Otherwise your complaints are not heard.

And a comment. In WA we are not allowed to use SE cable, its in our state code rules (don't know why). So for us its pipe and wire. Standard is a 200 amp service as our power rates are fairly low, a 200 amp panel is $80.
Now when I go back east I see SE cable everywhere, looks odd. Eastners come out here and see pipe and wire - wow, whats with you sparkies?

Same here. POCO actually requires RMC. One guy argued that the code says he can run EMT, I told him it did and it also allows cable, the utility on the other had does not follow the same code book we do and if you want to get it approved you'll run the RMC