subpanel installation

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Charlie Bob

Charlie Bob

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Location
West Tennessee
I have to move a subpanel about 15'.I'm using the old panel box as a pull box where i'm splicing old romex without ground to new romex.(rewiring is out of question)
I was gonna use gfci breakers but there are 12 circuits so that would bring bid way up, talked to inspector and told me that everything, as long as i don't mess with receptacles was grandfather-in, so i didn't need to do that i could use regular breakers.
I'm gonna feed subpanel with new 4 wire service wire, and of course i'm not using main jumper in subpanel.
-Should i hook the EG from this new romex to the ground bus bar , or i should leave it unhooked?
-Is there anything else you all would do to it?
(this subpanel is in a basement with concrete flooring, and is fed from a 200 amp panelbox in the same basement.) (the old 60 amp fuse box supplied the old part of the house)
Thank you all>
 
Definately hook up the ground. As long as youre not changing anything as far as the branch circuits - they usually dont require anything extra. I would screw the door part of the cover to the cover itself so there can be no exposed wires.

~Matt
 
thanks, that's what i thought it's be correct.

But just a thought:

If this would be a separate building it would require an GEC driven, inspector never mention that this time, why? what's the difference?
 
Yes, absolutely hook up the grounds from the new cables to the bus. I always do, whether or not the existing branch circuits carry it out to the outlets. You ground what you can. As for the existing branch circuits without grounds, I replace each receptacle with a GFCI if the box size will let me, and put a "No Equipment Ground" label on the cover plate. If the boxes are too small for GFCIs I ask the property owner if I can swap them out, after estimating the cost and if it makes sense from a practical standpoint. If not done I generally put it in writing about the grounding issue, to CYA as much as I can (sad but true that anyone should need to do so). Or estimate the cost of GFCI breakers for those circuits, and install them if I get the OK. Good luck!
 
The inspector should require upgrading the branch to include EGC's because the supplying distribution includes it. The owners [users] do not the benafit of fault path throughout these circuits without EGC's. I my opinion changing the distribution should require its distributing circuitry to comply.
 
JWCELECTRIC said:
Does it make it a UL listed junction box?
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It was listed for splices when it was new. Pigtail two wires together to put under one breaker and you just made it a junction box. Hang a surage arrester outside and splice the wires to a breaker and volia! junction box.
 
tryinghard said:
The inspector should require upgrading the branch to include EGC's because the supplying distribution includes it. The owners [users] do not the benafit of fault path throughout these circuits without EGC's. I my opinion changing the distribution should require its distributing circuitry to comply.
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I agree.:)
 
tryinghard said:
The inspector should require upgrading the branch to include EGC's because the supplying distribution includes it. The owners [users] do not the benafit of fault path throughout these circuits without EGC's. I my opinion changing the distribution should require its distributing circuitry to comply.
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I completly disagree. Lets say your loadcenter is ready to melt down, and all your branch circuits are 2 wire, no ground. You got just enough money to replace the fire hazard, but no way you can afford re-wiring the house. What do you do? Live with no power? Requiring that would be beyond un-reasonable.


~Matt
 
TOOL_5150 said:
I completly disagree. Lets say your loadcenter is ready to melt down, and all your branch circuits are 2 wire, no ground. You got just enough money to replace the fire hazard, but no way you can afford re-wiring the house. What do you do? Live with no power? Requiring that would be beyond un-reasonable.


~Matt
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Careful now you can follow this line of reasoning in every area/situation of the trade. :roll:
 
Most of us know that you are allowed to use the old fuse box as a junction box. And most of have done that. (Peter d will post the Nec reference :))
How ever IMHO (In my humble opinion for those of you in Reolinda)
It is just as easy to pull the circuits out and splice them. Either under the house or in the attic. It is not much more trouble and makes for a very neat install.
Don't laugh, but I actually carry a gallon of joint compound and mud tape in the truck. Along with some small pieces of sheet rock.
I patch the hole where ther panel was.
But think how easy it is to fish wires once you take the old sub panel out.
I learned this in property management work.
I was charging so much . I surely didn't want them to have to higher a sheet rocker after I left. (That's for rentals) A home owner will want it finished. Which you politely say the painter will handle finishing it.
 
tryinghard said:
The inspector should require upgrading the branch to include EGC's because the supplying distribution includes it. The owners [users] do not the benafit of fault path throughout these circuits without EGC's. I my opinion changing the distribution should require its distributing circuitry to comply.
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Are you serious? That is total nonsense. Why should a house be rewired just because the service panel is changed. The existing service could support branch circuits with EGC's so replacing the panel doesn't change anything.
 
tryinghard said:
Careful now you can follow this line of reasoning in every area/situation of the trade. :roll:
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Ok and even a broken clock is right twice in a day. Explain why you think that if you change out a loadcenter, that every single circuit connected to it should be brought up to code as well.

Regulations around here only require a circuit be brought to code if you add to it or modify it. Changing the loadcenter does not modify it in any way.

~Matt
 
curt swartz said:
Are you serious? That is total nonsense. Why should a house be rewired just because the service panel is changed. The existing service could support branch circuits with EGC's so replacing the panel doesn't change anything.
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I don't think I'm the one exaggerating here, how often is every circuit devoid of an EGC in a whole house?

My point is situational just like the original post, certain branch from this particular sub panel.
 
TOOL_5150 said:
Ok and even a broken clock is right twice in a day. Explain why you think that if you change out a loadcenter, that every single circuit connected to it should be brought up to code as well.
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Because it?s the source and also to provide ?the practical safeguarding of persons and property for hazards arising from the use of electricity? (90.1(A)). A digital clock cannot be right in your scenario :cool:

TOOL_5150 said:
Regulations around here only require a circuit be brought to code if you add to it or modify it. Changing the loadcenter does not modify it in any way.
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I am suggesting the non-compliant circuits be brought up to code because the source is now being brought up to code therefore its non-compliant branches should as well; probably a whopping 3 or 4 circuits.

My real point is we need to emphasis correct/safe not value; value will have to find a way.
 
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