supplimental GES for disconnect

[resistance]

@kwired,
Some utilities are the AHJ. Also, In most cases [99.9% of cases]--where the service is involved--the serving utility dictates how electrical equipment should be installed. Technically they are the AHJ up until their ownership stops. Our local inspectors, or another body of authority inspects based on their specifications.

Please note that the structure (Mobile and Manufactured homes) are under HUD?s jurisdiction. Here is what HUD has to say regarding Manufactured homes (in-part):(3) Service equipment installed on themanufactured home in accordance withArticle 230 of the National ElectricalCode, NFPA No. 70?2005, and thefollowing requirements:***** (ii) Exterior equipment, or theenclosure in which it is installed mustbe weatherproof and installed inaccordance with Article 312.2(A) of theNational Electrical Code, NFPA No. 70?2005, and conductors must be suitablefor use in wet locations;
(iii) Each neutral conductor must beconnected to the system groundingconductor on the supply side of themain disconnect in accordance withArticles 250.24, 250.26, and 250.28 ofthe National Electrical Code, NFPA No.70?2005.

 

[Smart $]

...
(A) only applys if (B) is not met (manufactured homes). No 30' in (B).

First, (B) is permitted, not required, and only if it is a manufactured home AND conditions (1) through (7) are met.

Irregardless, note (B) refers to only to Service Equipment. If the Service Equipment is located more than 30' away, how does (B) apply???

Answer: (B) does not apply. There is no mention of a non-service local disconnect as permitted under 550.32(A). What was that about the last sentence of 550.32(B)? (rhetorical)

 

[Smart $]

Now read (C)

(C) Rating. Mobile home service equipment shall be rated at
not less than 100 amperes at 120/240 volts,

What is missing is "and manufactured home service equipment".
No minimum service for a manufactured home. Is this what they meant? No. Is this what they said? Yes.

Where do I fill out one of them there forms?????

(C) applies to manufactured homes because of the definition clause, "For the purpose of this Code and unless otherwise indicated, the term mobile home includes manufactured homes."

 

[jxofaltrds]

(C) applies to manufactured homes because of the definition clause, "For the purpose of this Code and unless otherwise indicated, the term mobile home includes manufactured homes."

Example of otherwise indicated.

When the code wants it to appy to both it says so:
II. Mobile and Manufactured Homes
550.25(B) Mobile Homes and Manufactured Homes.

When the code wants to seperate them it does:
III. Services and Feeders
550.32 Service Equipment.
(A) Mobile Home Service Equipment.
(B) Manufactured Home Service Equipment.


If the service equipment is not in or on the home (A) applys. The distance 'regardless' if it is 30', 5', or 100 of a disconnect "adjacent" to the home keeps us from using (B).

 

[Smart $]

Example of otherwise indicated.

When the code wants it to appy to both it says so:
II. Mobile and Manufactured Homes
550.25(B) Mobile Homes and Manufactured Homes.

Just because it mentions both in one section [or subsection] does not rescind the definition clause when manufactured homes are not mentioned.

When the code wants to seperate them it does:
III. Services and Feeders
550.32 Service Equipment.
(A) Mobile Home Service Equipment.
(B) Manufactured Home Service Equipment.

No. (A) applies to both. (B) is essentially an exception to (A) for manufactured homes.

If the service equipment is not in or on the home (A) applys. The distance 'regardless' if it is 30', 5', or 100 of a disconnect "adjacent" to the home keeps us from using (B).

I agree.

 

[jxofaltrds]

No. (A) applies to both. (B) is essentially an exception to (A) for manufactured homes.

Ok
(A) is always the rule and (B)(C)(D) or whatever are the exceptions

 

[Smart $]

Ok
(A) is always the rule and (B)(C)(D) or whatever are the exceptions

Only 550.32(B) is the "exception".

 

[jxofaltrds]

Only 550.32(B) is the "exception".

Sorry I can't change your mind.
Approved hundreds that way.

 

[Smart $]

Sorry I can't change your mind.
Approved hundreds that way.

That's a bit vague. Approved hundreds what way?

 

[iwire]

Sorry I can't change your mind.
Approved hundreds that way.

Is that the inspectors version of an electrians 'We always do it that way'?

 

[jxofaltrds]

That's a bit vague. Approved hundreds what way?

No disconnect per (A). Treated them just like a stick built home.

Is that the inspectors version of an electrians 'We always do it that way'?

Hope it didn't sound that way. Hope it sounded more as allowing rather than prohibiting.

 

[Smart $]

No disconnect per (A). Treated them just like a stick built home.

So you're saying the service was more than 30' away, and no disconnect adjacent within 30'? ...but there was a main disconnect on or in the manufactured home, right?

I personally have no problem with that... but that's not how the Code reads :huh:

Perhaps you do need that form :happyyes:

 

[jxofaltrds]

http://www.electrical-contractor.net/Newsletters/ECN/Need_To_Know/Understanding_NEC.htm

 

[resistance]

http://www.electrical-contractor.net/Newsletters/ECN/Need_To_Know/Understanding_NEC.htm

Why understand it!!!

 

[jxofaltrds]

So you're saying the service was more than 30' away, and no disconnect adjacent within 30'? ...but there was a main disconnect on or in the manufactured home, right?

:happyyes:

What I am saying is the meter and disconnect are on the home or the meter is on the home and the factory panel is used as the main disconnect (rare to have this happen).

 

[Smart $]

http://www.electrical-contractor.net/Newsletters/ECN/Need_To_Know/Understanding_NEC.htm

How does this relate... :?

I will point out two sentences near the bottom...

Mandatory Code rules use the word shall.
Permissive Rules identify actions that are allowed but not required, such as options or alternative methods.

Note which 550.32 subsections use "shall" and "permitted".

 

[Smart $]

What I am saying is the meter and disconnect are on the home or the meter is on the home and the factory panel is used as the main disconnect (rare to have this happen).

That's the service location. That complies with 550.32(B). I have no problem with that...

So now I'm at a loss understanding what point you were attempting to make. :?

We're discussing an instance where the service equipment is located more than 30' away from the exterior of the manufactured home. Is an adjacent disconnect within 30', not on or in, required for this manufactured home?

 

[jxofaltrds]

How does this relate... :?

I will point out two sentences near the bottom...



Note which 550.32 subsections use "shall" and "permitted".

Yes it shall in (A) unless it is permitted in (B). (B) says that I need no disconnect as required in (A).

So I can put the disconnect (if one is needed at all) on, in or beside, 30', a manufactured home but I must install a disconnect, 30', for a mobile home.

 

[jxofaltrds]

That's the service location. That complies with 550.32(B). I have no problem with that...

So now I'm at a loss understanding what point you were attempting to make. :?

We're discussing an instance where the service equipment is located more than 30' away from the exterior of the manufactured home. Is an adjacent disconnect within 30', not on or in, required for this manufactured home?

YES.

 

[Smart $]

YES.

Great!!!

Now that we got that out of the way, does anyone feel as me that where a manufactured home meeting all the requirements for service equipment on or in it (additionally, no N-to-G bond), should be permitted to have the "local" disconnect on or in it, when the service equipment is located more than 30' from the exterior... which would, as you said earlier, treat it the same as stick built? (sorry about the run-on sentence)