Supply Side Connection at Remote Meter

[darunedefig]

Normally for remote meters I would put in an AC disconnect at meter where the neutral to ground connection would now be and re-work the main service panel to make it a subpanel(no N-G connections).


My main question is if there is a way to tap "supply side connection" at a junction box under a remote meter that is 200' away

without having to re-wire the main panel or put a new service disconnect in ?

See attached image.

Lets assume for the existing system that the neutral to ground connection is at the main service panel at house.

My issue being the neutral to ground connection. Could you tap the neutral at JB below meter and just run the PV EGC to the house?
Or is there an even better way to do this? Parallel service?

 

[Smart $]

You are good to go as drawn. Junction box gets grounded with neutral, if metallic. Provide a N-G bond jumper in the fused disconnect, same as if a service disconnect.

 

[darunedefig]

You are good to go as drawn. Junction box gets grounded with neutral, if metallic. Provide a N-G bond jumper in the fused disconnect, same as if a service disconnect.

So there will be two neutral-to-ground "neutral-to-case" connections. One existing at the Main Service Panel at home and
a new one at the fused AC disconnect (near meter 200' away).

 

[Smart $]

So there will be two neutral-to-ground "neutral-to-case" connections. One existing at the Main Service Panel at home and
a new one at the fused AC disconnect (near meter 200' away).

Correct... no different than if you had two service disconnecting means in separate enclosures.... except being remote separate structures to each other, each have separate GES's.

 

[ggunn]

I'll just add that it would be, IMO, a good idea to run a three line by the engineering guys at the utility before you build anything.

 

[darunedefig]

I'll just add that it would be, IMO, a good idea to run a three line by the engineering guys at the utility before you build anything.

For sure.
Just for further clarification. This design is only possible because no metal parts are touching from the main house and the PV system. If they were then there can only be one neutral to ground connection I believe.
And for NEC code 250 is the section to reference.
250.142 Use of Grounded Circuit Conductor for Grounding Equipment.

 

[jaggedben]

For sure.
Just for further clarification. This design is only possible because no metal parts are touching from the main house and the PV system. If they were then there can only be one neutral to ground connection I believe.
And for NEC code 250 is the section to reference.
250.142 Use of Grounded Circuit Conductor for Grounding Equipment.

In my opinion whether the raceways are metal doesn't matter. You have multiple service disconnects and you are allowed to run the grounded conductor to each disconnect and have an N-G bond at each one. In fact if you believe that the PV disconnect is a service disconnect then it's required. See 250.24(C).

Smart$ and I may disagree on whether the PV disconnect is a service disconnect (I think it is), but we agree that you can bond both enclosures in your diagram to the grounded conductor and that that is safe and to code.

I would still of course run it by all appropriate authorities because we've heard on this forum of some AHJs who won't let you do this because they don't consider the PV disconnect a service disconnect.

 

[Smart $]

...

I would still of course run it by all appropriate authorities because we've heard on this forum of some AHJs who won't let you do this because they don't consider the PV disconnect a service disconnect.

Then as he mentioned 250.142(A) would apply... you just wouldn't call the N-G bond a "main bonding jumper" as you would with a service disconnecting means.

 

[electrofelon]

So there will be two neutral-to-ground "neutral-to-case" connections. One existing at the Main Service Panel at home and
a new one at the fused AC disconnect (near meter 200' away).

Just to maybe simplify things a bit - I think you are overthinking the "two N-G bonds" bit. Note that it is not just this PV install that makes two neutral to case connections. Even with just the remote meter, it is bonded to neutral. Hit a metal pull box half way between the meter and the house -it is bonded to neutral. Got a piece of rigid going up the pole? Thats neutral bonded too. Anything on the supply side is N-G bonded and you can have any number of them.

 

[david]

Just to maybe simplify things a bit - I think you are overthinking the "two N-G bonds" bit. Note that it is not just this PV install that makes two neutral to case connections. Even with just the remote meter, it is bonded to neutral. Hit a metal pull box half way between the meter and the house -it is bonded to neutral. Got a piece of rigid going up the pole? Thats neutral bonded too. Anything on the supply side is N-G bonded and you can have any number of them.

230.40 Number of Service-Entrance Conductor Sets.
Each service drop or lateral shall supply only one set of service-entrance conductors.

Well if there is a disagreement as to how you define the remote disconnect (meter location) you would not normally be allowed to run service entrances to both locations. Once a set of service entrances was run to the disconnect at the meter location you would not normally be allowed to run a second set of service entrance conductors to the house from the meter location.

In this application it is not necessary to group you service disconnects at the meter location since a second set of service entrance conductors are allowed for a single family dwelling between the separate structures 230.40 Exception No. 3. Note metal systems between these two structures will not affect the application of this exception.

{Exception No. 3: A single-family dwelling unit and a separate structure shall be permitted to have one set of service-entrance conductors run to each from a single service drop or lateral.}

Now if the application was other than a single family dwelling and an a separate structure, defining these disconnects becomes important. From a personal observation I as an electrical inspector and the PV installer need to get on the same page. If I am unwilling to define the meter disconnect as PV equipment disconnecting means and insist it to be a “normal service disconnect” than the PV contractor becomes frustrated.

 

[Smart $]

230.40 Number of Service-Entrance Conductor Sets.
...

... From a personal observation I as an electrical inspector and the PV installer need to get on the same page. If I am unwilling to define the meter disconnect as PV equipment disconnecting means and insist it to be a “normal service disconnect” than the PV contractor becomes frustrated.

The typical qualifier for any occupancy is 230.40 Exception No. 5...

Exception No. 5: One set of service-entrance conductors
connected to the supply side of the normal service disconnecting
means shall be permitted to supply each or several
systems covered by 230.82(5) or 230.82(6).

 

[david]

You install PV equipment at the meter location with the ability to add (normal load) feeder and branch circuits additional bus space and do not identify it as solar equipment only, allowing others to know that branch circuits and feeder are not to be distributed through that equipment I would define it as a normal service disconnect.

 

[david]

Normally for remote meters I would put in an AC disconnect at meter where the neutral to ground connection would now be and re-work the main service panel to make it a subpanel(no N-G connections).

The typical qualifier for any occupancy is 230.40 Exception No. 5...

I agree I guess my comment was to the OP original statement