swimming pools

[jdoggg]

Does a ground rod need to be driven in next to the hook up bonded in with the pool loop and then bonded in with the power feed ground comming from the house ?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Does a ground rod need to be driven in next to the hook up bonded in with the pool loop and then bonded in with the power feed ground comming from the house ?

No ground rods are necessary for pool equipment bonding

 

[augie47]

jdogg, you might find this download from Mike's site helpful:

http://www.mikeholt.com/files/PDF/Pooldownload.pdf

 

[inspector141]

Does a ground rod need to be driven in next to the hook up bonded in with the pool loop and then bonded in with the power feed ground comming from the house ?

If a pool panel is installed on a post next to the pool equipment, some inspectors consider this a structure and therefore enforce 250.32.
We do not enforce this rule for swimming pool panels when installed on a post next to the equipment.

Any opinions on this?

Marty

 

[raider1]

If a pool panel is installed on a post next to the pool equipment, some inspectors consider this a structure and therefore enforce 250.32.
We do not enforce this rule for swimming pool panels when installed on a post next to the equipment.

Any opinions on this?

Marty

How is that panel on a post not a "sturcture"?

Structure. That which is built or constructed.

250.32(A) applys to buildings or structures supplied by a feeder.

So in accordance with that section a grounding electrode system is required at the post with the pool panel.

Chris

 

[inspector141]

How is that panel on a post not a "sturcture"?



250.32(A) applys to buildings or structures supplied by a feeder.

So in accordance with that section a grounding electrode system is required at the post with the pool panel.

Chris

OK! Now the follow up question. Who enforces and who installs a ground rod at a pool? No one that I'm aware of in my State. The reason is that a ground rod at a swimming pool may INCREASE stray voltage currents. I use to have a graphic reflecting this, but I misplaced it. Maybe someone has this and will share it with us.
That is my understanding of why a ground rod should be avoided at a swimming pool.
I'm fully aware of a post being a structure, but we conveniently misapply the definition at pools due to the potential hazards.

I would like to here other opinions on this.

 

[electricmanscott]

OK! Now the follow up question. Who enforces and who installs a ground rod at a pool? No one that I'm aware of in my State. The reason is that a ground rod at a swimming pool may INCREASE stray voltage currents. I use to have a graphic reflecting this, but I misplaced it. Maybe someone has this and will share it with us.
That is my understanding of why a ground rod should be avoided at a swimming pool.
I'm fully aware of a post being a structure, but we conveniently misapply the definition at pools due to the potential hazards.

I would like to here other opinions on this.

If everything is bonded properly I would think your thoughts on stray voltage being an issue are unfounded.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

OK! Now the follow up question. Who enforces and who installs a ground rod at a pool? No one that I'm aware of in my State. The reason is that a ground rod at a swimming pool may INCREASE stray voltage currents. I use to have a graphic reflecting this, but I misplaced it. Maybe someone has this and will share it with us.
That is my understanding of why a ground rod should be avoided at a swimming pool.
I'm fully aware of a post being a structure, but we conveniently misapply the definition at pools due to the potential hazards.

I would like to here other opinions on this.

So the rod increases stray voltage--- How? The reason we have equipotential bonding is to avoid any stray voltages that may exist. The ground rod is there basically for lightning strikes so I hope you are not in the pool during a T-storm, etc.

The OP, of course, did not mention a panel but a ground rod connected to the pool equipment loop and the power to the pool. Is this wire a feeder or a branch circuit? -- we do not know. If it is a feeder to a panel then I would install the rods otherwise I would not.

 

[Cavie]

Does a ground rod need to be driven in next to the hook up bonded in with the pool loop and then bonded in with the power feed ground comming from the house ?

No ground rod on the grid and do not connect the grid to the pool panel. However, the grid will be bonded thru the connection of the ground wire to the wet nitch fixture from the light transformer because the wet nitch is bonded to the poolsteel so there really is a connection from the pool panel to the grid.

 

[radiopet]

If a pool panel is installed on a post next to the pool equipment, some inspectors consider this a structure

Marty

I indeed consider this a structure......if a panel enclosure is installed in this manner.

 

[mikeames]

Seems like everyone here thinks a post is a structure. (I don't considere it to be) but if everyoen does then when would a panel not require a grond rod. If a single post is a structure I cant think of anythign less than just laying the panel on the ground.

The NEC defines a "Structure" as "That which is built or constructed".

By putting a post in the ground you are not building or constructing anything. You are putting a post in the ground. Even webster does not define a structure as a post in the ground. I guess if it were more than just a post it would be a structure.

 

[raider1]

By putting a post in the ground you are not building or constructing anything.

I have to disagree. By putting a post in the ground you are constructing a support structure for a piece of electrical equipment (Electrical panel).

Chris

 

[mikeames]

IMHO you are providing support but you are not creating a structure. I respectfully agree to disagree.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

IMHO you are providing support but you are not creating a structure. I respectfully agree to disagree.

There is no clear answer to this however, with the wording as is I agree with Chris. You have created a support. How did you create the support? ---By building a structure.

 

[Steviechia2]

. However, the grid will be bonded thru the connection of the ground wire to the wet nitch fixture from the light transformer because the wet nitch is bonded to the poolsteel so there really is a connection from the pool panel to the grid.[/QUOTE]

And also through the pool pump

 

[raider1]

IMHO you are providing support but you are not creating a structure. I respectfully agree to disagree.

How did you provide the support? By "Constructing" it, which would make the "Support" a "Structure" by the NEC definition.

Chris

 

[iwire]

Seems like everyone here thinks a post is a structure. (I don't considere it to be)

The NEC does consider a post or pole a struture or this exception would not exist.

225.32 Location. The disconnecting means shall be installed either inside or outside of the building or structure served or where the conductors pass through the building or structure. The disconnecting means shall be at a readily accessible location nearest the point of entrance of the conductors. For the purposes of this section, the requirements in 230.6 shall be utilized.


Exception No. 3: For towers or poles used as lighting standards, the disconnecting means shall be permitted to be located elsewhere on the premises.

If this exception was not here you would be installing disconnecting means at every site pole or ground light.

 

[mikeames]

Bob makes the point I am trying to make.

Also if some consider support a structure than by hangin a panel from a tree I a constructed support. To construct means just that. You ahve to use more than one member to construct anythign. Other wise if you just have a post you have not constructed anythign you have just placed. Construction requires multiple pieces. If I hold a fork in my hand I have not constructed anythign. Its ashame the NEC gives such an elementary 6 word definition.

I would consider a sports lighting tower a structure because its usually multiple parts, such as the pole, the balast enclosure, and the light arms. Althoguh the NEC would not.

 

[raider1]

I would consider a sports lighting tower a structure because its usually multiple parts, such as the pole, the balast enclosure, and the light arms. Althoguh the NEC would not.

No, the NEC does consider a lighting tower a structure, what Bob was pointing out is that there is a specific exception in 225.32 that permits us to omit the disconnecting means at the pole or tower.

Chris

 

[iwire]

Bob makes the point I am trying to make.

Also if some consider support a structure than by hangin a panel from a tree I a constructed support. To construct means just that. You ahve to use more than one member to construct anythign. Other wise if you just have a post you have not constructed anythign you have just placed. Construction requires multiple pieces. If I hold a fork in my hand I have not constructed anythign. Its ashame the NEC gives such an elementary 6 word definition.

I would consider a sports lighting tower a structure because its usually multiple parts, such as the pole, the balast enclosure, and the light arms. Althoguh the NEC would not.

Mike if you pound simple stick into the ground and mount a fixture to it you have a structure and a disconnecting means would be required. But the exception relives us of that. If the NFPA did not consider a simple one piece light pole a structure there would be no reason for the exception.