T-12 lamp replacement

[Okelectric]

I have a customer with 40/50 some odd T12 lay-ins some bad ballasts,some just bad bulbs.
Customer wants quote to get all lighting repaired.

Which do you find more cost effective, for 4' 4-bulb fixtures. (T-12 has 2 ballasts, 4 lamp T-8 is 1 ballast)

Convert ballast to T-8 & relamp.
OR

Replace w/new T-8 fixtures.

Thanks,
mhoward

 

[ActionDave]

I have done it both ways. It depends on the conditions of the existing fixtures and how they are fed, and the number of fixtures.
If I can remove fifty old fixtures and replace them with a new, pre-whipped trouffers its a no brainer- replace them.

 

[LEO2854]

I have a customer with 40/50 some odd T12 lay-ins some bad ballasts,some just bad bulbs.
Customer wants quote to get all lighting repaired.

Which do you find more cost effective, for 4' 4-bulb fixtures. (T-12 has 2 ballasts, 4 lamp T-8 is 1 ballast)

Convert ballast to T-8 & relamp.
OR

Replace w/new T-8 fixtures.

Thanks,
mhoward

You are better of just replacing the fixtures at this point with 3 lamp T-8's and you will still have more light.

Welcome to the forum..:thumbsup:

 

[dkeaux@gmail.com]

I have a customer with 40/50 some odd T12 lay-ins some bad ballasts,some just bad bulbs.
Customer wants quote to get all lighting repaired.

Which do you find more cost effective, for 4' 4-bulb fixtures. (T-12 has 2 ballasts, 4 lamp T-8 is 1 ballast)

Convert ballast to T-8 & relamp.
OR

Replace w/new T-8 fixtures.

Thanks,
mhoward

Retrofit with T8s and 4 lamp electronic ballast, that is typically big business on larger projects should work for a smaller job also. We are doing a fixture in 10 minutes.

 

[dkeaux@gmail.com]

I have done it both ways. It depends on the conditions of the existing fixtures and how they are fed, and the number of fixtures.
If I can remove fifty old fixtures and replace them with a new, pre-whipped trouffers its a no brainer- replace them.

Way more work than necessary for new lighting, retrofit half the cost same amount of time and you don't have to get involved with changeing whips out, don't forget your quick connect, for power.

 

[kwired]

Way more work than necessary for new lighting, retrofit half the cost same amount of time and you don't have to get involved with changeing whips out, don't forget your quick connect, for power.

If you can do either for about same cost why not change from 4 lamp T12 to 3 lamp T8? End result is comparable light output at less energy usage. You also need to consider the fact that T12's are supposed to become extinct eventually.

You are also likely to run into sockets that need replaced or lenses that are cracked or yellowed - new fixture everything is good.

You can also get some $$ back from the scrap metal in the old fixtures.

 

[TNBaer]

You should first find out if your state offers any rebates for completing such an upgrade. Many states or utilities offer 50% - 75% incentives for switching out the lighting.

There is no way you should go to a four lamp fixture. It's quick and easy and thus tempting, but going to three lamps or, dare I say two, will get the job done. In an office setting, 2 - 800 series lamps will always do the trick. In retail, use a 3 lamper.

If this was my project, I'd either use a retrofit kit or new fixtures. Really, it all depends on the condition of the existing fixtures and lenses. Replacement lenses are nearly impossible to find and fit.

If you have any questions or want some help designing lighting you can shoot me an email at TNBaer@Gmail.com .

 

[handy10]

Whether to replace the whole lamp or just the ballast and bulbs with T8s is more complicated than cost of fixtures. I replaced one in an office and I must say that removing the original light was a dreadful fight. There were hanger wires, pipes, etc. everywhere and the grid seemed not be be quite rectangular. Moreover, the original fixture was unusually heavy. The second fixture at that site was in a small office. I decided no way would I try fighting that fixture in that small space and over the furniture, so I replaced ballast and bulbs.

 

[ActionDave]

Way more work than necessary for new lighting, retrofit half the cost same amount of time and you don't have to get involved with changeing whips out, don't forget your quick connect, for power.

Perhaps, but as mentioned changing to a three lamp fixtures can be a bonus.

Also each job needs to be considered on its own merits. I have seen some pretty beat up light fixtures.
Changing out tombstones, messing with lens holders that fall out, cracked lenses that shatter, and other sorts of fussing around can eat up time on a job that would be appear to be easy

 

[Okelectric]

Thanks, Lots of good advise.

Quote: "You should first find out if your state offers any rebates for completing such an upgrade. Many states or utilities offer 50% - 75% incentives for switching out the lighting." Will do this for sure.

This is in a large call center. It is presently vacant.

The customer initially asked me to repair/replace the lighting to get ready for a new tenant.

With the T-12 phase-out, It looks like a dis-service to just replace the "bad" bulbs and ballasts with more T-12 equipment.

There are probably 150-200 lay-in fixtures total in the building. Only 5 or 6 offices and 2 training rooms. Most of these fixtures are on the main open floor. 10' ceilings.

The fixtures are all in pretty good shape, good lenses etc.

I don't think this customer is going to spring for a complete change-out of "ALL" of them.

Definitely would better served to use all the T-8s possible.

I think I am going to recommend going t-8 on all bad ballast fixtures, and using the left-over T-12 bulbs to light up the rest.

As ballasts go bad we will recommend to go with T-8s at that time.

 

[kwired]

Thanks, Lots of good advise.

Quote: "You should first find out if your state offers any rebates for completing such an upgrade. Many states or utilities offer 50% - 75% incentives for switching out the lighting." Will do this for sure.

This is in a large call center. It is presently vacant.

The customer initially asked me to repair/replace the lighting to get ready for a new tenant.

With the T-12 phase-out, It looks like a dis-service to just replace the "bad" bulbs and ballasts with more T-12 equipment.

There are probably 150-200 lay-in fixtures total in the building. Only 5 or 6 offices and 2 training rooms. Most of these fixtures are on the main open floor. 10' ceilings.

The fixtures are all in pretty good shape, good lenses etc.

I don't think this customer is going to spring for a complete change-out of "ALL" of them.

Definitely would better served to use all the T-8s possible.

I think I am going to recommend going t-8 on all bad ballast fixtures, and using the left-over T-12 bulbs to light up the rest.

As ballasts go bad we will recommend to go with T-8s at that time.

Figure energy savings less installation costs and a return on investment time and don't forget to deduct any rebates that may be available and present that to owner. Many only see it as an expense, but if you can show them what they can save they may go for it. If ROI is more than 5 years it may be a harder sell. It also makes you some money. It is also much easier to replace them while the building is still vacant.

 

[BullsnPyrs]

A complete retrofit with a 2 lamp refloector kit is a selling point to ther renter as well. New energy efficient light of uniform color and distribution well present well to prospective renters. A mixture of old t12 and new t8 will look like they are renting from some tightwad landlord who doesn't maintain the property and they might go looking for other reasons not to rent the property.

 

[TNBaer]

OkElectric, What state are you in? I can run energy savings and an ROI for you in under 10 minutes. Just ask nicely.