Tape?
- Thread starter midget
- Start date
- Status
chicar
Senior Member
- Location
- Lancaster,Pa
Re: Tape?
Even though it is not a requirement, we as "Professional Electricians" should ,could,and would properly mark the wire. The other brother
might have to work on the wires you installed wether it's tracing,trouble shooting, ect. Look out for your fellow electrician. The other brother would really apreciate it.
Good looking out, Peace.
Even though it is not a requirement, we as "Professional Electricians" should ,could,and would properly mark the wire. The other brother
might have to work on the wires you installed wether it's tracing,trouble shooting, ect. Look out for your fellow electrician. The other brother would really apreciate it.
Good looking out, Peace.
peter d
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
Re: Tape?
chicar,
I don't get paid to look out for my fellow electrician; I get paid to install code compliant wiring.
If an electrician can't figure out that there is another live circuit in an enclosure, they have some serious problems on their hands.
chicar,
I don't get paid to look out for my fellow electrician; I get paid to install code compliant wiring.
If an electrician can't figure out that there is another live circuit in an enclosure, they have some serious problems on their hands.
kpepin
Senior Member
Re: Tape?
check Art 210.5.
Your supposed to ID all ungrounded conductors according to the phase. I know most people don't do it and most inspectors don't check it.
Every company I've worked for uses Black, Red, Blue for 120/208 Volt circuits and Brown, Orange, Yellow for 277/480 Volt circuits.
Of course, when running an MC from a junction box, I've never seen the Phase conductor re-identified.
Personally, I don't think it's a big deal. I always check for voltage before I start working on something so I know what I'm dealing with.
check Art 210.5.
Your supposed to ID all ungrounded conductors according to the phase. I know most people don't do it and most inspectors don't check it.
Every company I've worked for uses Black, Red, Blue for 120/208 Volt circuits and Brown, Orange, Yellow for 277/480 Volt circuits.
Of course, when running an MC from a junction box, I've never seen the Phase conductor re-identified.
Personally, I don't think it's a big deal. I always check for voltage before I start working on something so I know what I'm dealing with.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Tape?
Under the 2002 NEC the only time you must identify the phase is a in multiwire branch circuit where more than one nominal voltage system exists in the building. 210.4(D)
It is very unlikely that a dwelling unit will have more than one nominal voltage system.
Bob
[ December 22, 2004, 06:24 PM: Message edited by: iwire ]
No 210.5 is about the grounded conductor.
Under the 2002 NEC the only time you must identify the phase is a in multiwire branch circuit where more than one nominal voltage system exists in the building. 210.4(D)
It is very unlikely that a dwelling unit will have more than one nominal voltage system.
Bob
[ December 22, 2004, 06:24 PM: Message edited by: iwire ]
peter d
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
Re: Tape?
Bob,
A military branch circuit?
Bob,
A military branch circuit?
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Tape?
Originally posted by peter d:
Bob,
A military branch circuit?
I had already caught that.
That is what happens when your watching the news and typing at the same time.
sandsnow
Senior Member
- Location
- Southern California
Re: Tape?
Color coding makes for a great above and beyond the Code job.
It might possibly be required through inference in the 2005 NEC. I'm just guessing that these NEIS standards would have color coding, maybe they don't. With this ammo, you may see a lot more inspectors enforcing neat and workmanlike.
110.12 -- Mechanical Execution of Work
By Mike Holt
This section requires electrical equipment to be installed in a "neat and workmanlike manner," but the Code doesn't provide details on what that means. A new FPN gives the Code user a reference to an ANSI standard on the subject of installation workmanship.
What the Code says: Electrical equipment must be installed in a neat and workmanlike manner.
FPN: Accepted industry practices are described in ANSI/NECA 1-2000 Standard Practices for Good Workmanship in Electrical Contracting, and other ANSI installation standards.
(Modified Code wording is underlined.)
Behind the change: NECA has created a series of National Electrical Installation Standards (NEIS) that establish the industry's first quality guidelines for electrical installations. These standards define a benchmark or baseline for quality and workmanship for installing electrical products and systems. They explain what installing electrical products and systems in a "neat and workmanlike manner" means.
The section you want I think is 210.4(D). Please read it carefully as it states that only multiwire circuits need to have the ungrounded conductors identified.
Color coding makes for a great above and beyond the Code job.
It might possibly be required through inference in the 2005 NEC. I'm just guessing that these NEIS standards would have color coding, maybe they don't. With this ammo, you may see a lot more inspectors enforcing neat and workmanlike.
110.12 -- Mechanical Execution of Work
By Mike Holt
This section requires electrical equipment to be installed in a "neat and workmanlike manner," but the Code doesn't provide details on what that means. A new FPN gives the Code user a reference to an ANSI standard on the subject of installation workmanship.
What the Code says: Electrical equipment must be installed in a neat and workmanlike manner.
FPN: Accepted industry practices are described in ANSI/NECA 1-2000 Standard Practices for Good Workmanship in Electrical Contracting, and other ANSI installation standards.
(Modified Code wording is underlined.)
Behind the change: NECA has created a series of National Electrical Installation Standards (NEIS) that establish the industry's first quality guidelines for electrical installations. These standards define a benchmark or baseline for quality and workmanship for installing electrical products and systems. They explain what installing electrical products and systems in a "neat and workmanlike manner" means.
kpepin
Senior Member
Re: Tape?
[/qb][/QUOTE]The section you want I think is 210.4(D). Please read it carefully as it states that only multiwire circuits need to have the ungrounded conductors identified.
From the 2005 NEC
[/qb][/QUOTE]The section you want I think is 210.4(D). Please read it carefully as it states that only multiwire circuits need to have the ungrounded conductors identified.
From the 2005 NEC
True enough a house probable won't have more than one nominal voltage system but there are other types of buildings that require electricity.
peter d
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
Re: Tape?
Larry,
I still think "neat and workmanlike" is far too general even with the new standard you mentioned. Something can be safe even though it is not neat.
For instance, I can install NM cable that is all twisted up because I pulled it out of the center of the coil. If I follow all the applicable rules of article 334, I have a code compliant installation, but not a "neat and workmanlike" installation.
The installation I mentioned is still safe, and no inspector has the right to fail the job just because it doesn't look nice.
Larry,
I still think "neat and workmanlike" is far too general even with the new standard you mentioned. Something can be safe even though it is not neat.
For instance, I can install NM cable that is all twisted up because I pulled it out of the center of the coil. If I follow all the applicable rules of article 334, I have a code compliant installation, but not a "neat and workmanlike" installation.
The installation I mentioned is still safe, and no inspector has the right to fail the job just because it doesn't look nice.
peter d
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
Re: Tape?
There are still no code rules that require identification of phase conductors of the same system.
What do you mean by that remark?
There are still no code rules that require identification of phase conductors of the same system.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Tape?
Is anyone currently installing wiring under the 2005 NEC?
Sorry I assumed the 2002 NEC.
Is anyone currently installing wiring under the 2005 NEC?
kpepin
Senior Member
Re: Tape?
I always try to slowly incorporate any code changes as soon as the new code is released. I can't recall any instance where the new code is less strict than the previous. In fact, I think a lot of towns in my area are still using the 1999 code and I've never had any issues by using the latest code available.
**edit for spelling**
[ December 22, 2004, 06:54 PM: Message edited by: kpepin ]
I always try to slowly incorporate any code changes as soon as the new code is released. I can't recall any instance where the new code is less strict than the previous. In fact, I think a lot of towns in my area are still using the 1999 code and I've never had any issues by using the latest code available.
**edit for spelling**
[ December 22, 2004, 06:54 PM: Message edited by: kpepin ]
peter d
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
Re: Tape?
Yup.
Yup.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Tape?
but I do not see how you can be competitive that way.
You bid a job based on 2005 while the competition bids the same job based on 1999?
More power to you
but I do not see how you can be competitive that way.You bid a job based on 2005 while the competition bids the same job based on 1999?
kpepin
Senior Member
Re: Tape?
Second, we don't do residential work. When we bid on a job, most of the bids that come in for the project are in the same ballpark.
Wait a minute... what does this have to do with tape?
First, in my company, the owner has a few guys that run projects. He bids the work and lets his foremen decide the best way to do the job.Originally posted by iwire:
More power to you
You bid a job based on 2005 while the competition bids the same job based on 1999?
Second, we don't do residential work. When we bid on a job, most of the bids that come in for the project are in the same ballpark.
Wait a minute... what does this have to do with tape?
peter d
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
Re: Tape?
kpepin,
Read the code rule again. 210.4 (D) only applies to conductors of multiwire branch circuits.
I think that opening a juncion box and assuming that a wire color means something is very dangerous.
kpepin,
Read the code rule again. 210.4 (D) only applies to conductors of multiwire branch circuits.
I think that opening a juncion box and assuming that a wire color means something is very dangerous.
- Status