Test Question

[iwire]

Re: Test Question

Originally posted by jimwalker:
dam that Curt he opened this can of worms and went to bed LOL

He was nice enough to give me the right answer, before he left.

But I am not telling until some others have a shot at it.

 

[jimwalker]

Re: Test Question

Ok
Am i on the right track
will admit the answer could be argued to make any of them right except A

 

[tonyi]

Re: Test Question

A range is probably more a general building codes issue. Most places won't issue a residential CO until a place has functioning sink, toilet, and cooking facilities.

However...now I want to revise my vote for 3. Where does it say a stove needs to be in the kitchen? NEC would let you put one in the garage, basement, attic, bathroom etc

[ January 11, 2004, 01:08 AM: Message edited by: tonyi ]

 

[jimwalker]

Re: Test Question

My final vote is 3 too im going for 2 sa and 1 lighting. they are a must, the rest can be argued.
There is also a way to approach answers on these types of test.
1. the answer is usually not the lowest or highest answer
2.usually 2 out of 4 can be thrown out as flat wrong.(in this case only one def wrong one A)
3. using that system we throw D OUT as it is the high number. Leaves B OR C
4.now the tricky part, count up how many A,B,C,D
they will fall somewhere in the 20 to 30 % range of the total
This is an old trick and boosts the odds if you gotta guess
Lots of other tricks to boost your score.
What bothers me about these test is they really don't prove your qualified at all.Worked for a guy 10 years ago that was on his something like tenth try.He was renting a masters till he passed.All that really happened is he finally got lucky.There are only so many questions they can make up.It boils down to how fast you can look things up and how well you highlight numbers and prases.I took in 2 code NEC CODE BOOKS(YES LEGAL)
One had only tables in it .and back half only grounding questions(nothing says you cant remove pages)the other had huge color code tabs and lots of high lighting( i got plenty of stares)
Now the next trick is dont drink coffee(maybe one cup)eat as many hershy bars as you can stand and take vitamin e and bi.You will be wide awake.Now take at least 10 sharp new pencils,1 large clock,calculator with large numbers and a back up calc.Use every last minute you have.And don't spend 5 min.on any question.
How will you feel if you fail over just 1 or 2 questions.Your playing a game and they usually win.The right answer is what matters not some point that you could argue.The test will not prove a dam thing about your ability.Out of ten of you 2 will walk away winners.
Any care to disagree ?

 

[hurk27]

Re: Test Question

By Bob: But I am not telling until some others have a shot at it.

OK here's my shot at it. :roll:

 

[jimwalker]

Re: Test Question

Hurk we are on the same track.Only question seems to be if the laundry is to be counted with the kitchen.
They wanted us to be confused as to what they asked.Was not an accident.
They do this so that even good men will have to guess.
This is done to knock everyones scores down.
If we all stood together on tests that cheat to fail and started to do what they should be doing (determining if we are fit to fly alone )then we might have a fair system.
They dont want to see everyone getting a masters,it would put large companies out of buisness.Why would anyone not rather work for themself and make 2 times the pay?

 

[iwire]

Re: Test Question

Jim the answer is in your PM in box

 

[iwire]

Re: Test Question

Originally posted by jimwalker:
They dont want to see everyone getting a masters,it would put large companies out of buisness.Why would anyone not rather work for themself and make 2 times the pay?

What?

Maybe true for your state, not so up here.

I could work for myself on my Journeyman's license and the shortage of qualified help I highly doubt the test is trying to keep people out.

On top of that up here the tests are given by a private company hired by the state.

Personally I like the security of working for a company, they can chase the work and the money.

 

[hillbilly]

Re: Test Question

Off of the top of my head I'll say 3 circuits. A laundry room is a laundry room.
steve

 

[jimwalker]

Re: Test Question

Bob,thanks ,
i too will hold back the answer
As to test,here a journeyman can't do anything privatly,not even hang a fan or change a switch.
Yes there is merit behind working for others.I been on both sides of the fence.
Many guys would rather wire on there own, it to has advantages and disadvantages.They get more per hour ,pick there hours,but also have dead time and pressure to find jobs.
It is nice knowing monday my boss will have work lined up and friday i will get a check.
The options here are either be a EC contractor (masters)along with it's cost for insurance and overhead (that goes on with or without work )or work for others.Thow i do like getting payed what im worth i am in no need of big money,and at 55 i am slowing down.Have lost far to many friends in 50's that die from hard work and never enjoy retirement.And i am rethinking some of the risks i been taking,maybe i been dam lucky.

 

[pierre]

Re: Test Question

The NEC requires that a dwelling unit have permanent provisions for cooking (Art 100), it also requires a minimum of two small appliance branch circuits(210.11(C)(1). it also requires lighting in the kitchen (210.70(A)).
The question says a laundry area in the kitchen closet, that is the key to the answer. Also the word 'serving' the kitchen is important.
1. 2 - small appliance branch circuits.
2. 1 - provision for cooking (240v circuit)
3. 1 - lighting requires a circuit.(serving the kitchen)

Now is the closet part of the kitchen or not? My stance has been and will continue to be that a closet is not part of a room.

MY answer is 4 circuits.

Pierre

 

[luke warmwater]

Re: Test Question

Pierre,
I agree with you as far as that's what I think the answer should be.
But in a test environment I would go with 5.
My reason is that the question lists the laundry.

 

[luke warmwater]

Re: Test Question

I just re-read the question and the word 'this' seems to make the 'laundry in the kitchen closet' inclusive in the kitchen.

 

[curt swartz]

Re: Test Question

I?m back!

I didn?t expect to get 3 pages of replies. Looks like you guys had fun with this.

I thought the answer to this question should be 4-circuits (1-GL, 2-SA, 1-Laundry) but who ever make up this question said the answer should be 3. They backed the answer with 210.52(B) (F). I guess they need to read 210.70(A)(1) which requires all habitable rooms to have a lighting outlet. Since they said that this was an all-electric house it should have range and dryer circuits but since the NEC doesn?t require a range or dryer we aren?t required to install these circuits.

Curt

 

[pierre]

Re: Test Question

Curt
In an all electric house, the NEC does require permanent provisions for cooking, so some form of permanent cooking 'appliance' is required.

What source did this question come from?

Pierre

 

[tonyi]

Re: Test Question

Apparently the gotcha here is that even in this "all electric house", there's no NEC requirement I know of where said cooking appliance actually be located - this makes the "all electric" language a canard just like the dryer in the closet language.

99.99999% of the time its gonna be the kitchen, but then again, someone might want their stove in the bathroom...maybe they're a real bad cook and do a lot of ralphing

 

[curt swartz]

Re: Test Question

Pierre

If cooking equipment is installed I do agree that it would be required to install the proper circuits and outlets but I don?t believe the NEC requires dwellings to have cooking equipment.

Check your messages??..I sent you a PM with the link to the site I found this question on.

 

[curt swartz]

Re: Test Question

Never mind my last comment about cooking equipment not being required. I just looked in the NEC and Article 100 does require permanent provisions for cooking equipment. I guess the correct answer should be 5-circuits.

I have never wired a dwelling without cooking equipment, not because of the NEC but because most normal people want cooking equipment.

 

[luke warmwater]

Re: Test Question

curt,
will you pm the link also? thanx, Todd

 

[hurk27]

Re: Test Question

pierre
Artical 100 is Definitions where do you see Definitions as a requirment?
We use Definitions to determin what the code requires not as a requirment.
The Definition of a dwelling is just that and there is nowhere does it say that you have to have a range just that the house would no longer meet a dwelling Definition.

and as far as that goes how could the NEC require a range receptacle when untill the permanent provisions for cooking is decided on by the home owner as who would know what kind of circuit to install? there are ranges that operate on as small as a 20 amp 240 volt circuit now. They might even install a wood burning stove I've seen a few of these comming back into use. so this would be a hard call for the NEC or the AHJ.