- Location
- Massachusetts
Which is exactly where acual electrians work. :thumbsup:
Testing old wiring before arc fault protection
- Thread starter dhalleron
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Which is exactly where acual electrians work. :thumbsup:
- Location
- Massachusetts
That is about as insulting as you can be.
Might as well just say
'See things my way or your just stupid.'
mbrooke
Batteries Included
- Location
- United States
- Occupation
- Technician
I don't follow :blink::blink:
Im not saying this section lets a standard breaker do all the protection even up to the load. My point is that the first 50 feet and under are protected from arc faults inside the wall. Cords and the rest by an outlet AFCI.
romex jockey
Senior Member
- Location
- Vermont
- Occupation
- electrician
what a long strange trip it's been....
what a long strange trip it's been....
As you are well aware Mr MBrooke, those are NOT arbitrary distances.
They are inherent impedances constituting trip levels.
Now, how many times have we posted these UL reports? I'm loosing track......
There are also UL , as well as CSPC reports focused on trip levels .....
Then there is the slew of OCPD patents , all of which addressed trip levels
oh ,and....if i failed to mention it, the entire (NEC & CEC) OCPD industry has been obsessively focused on trip levels
THAT SAID, find me a trade rag article , IAEI dissertation, Manufacturers public memo , NEC document , (et all bureaucratic trade entities) openly opining on the validity of lower trip levels
thx for playin'!....
~RJ~
what a long strange trip it's been....
As you are well aware Mr MBrooke, those are NOT arbitrary distances.
They are inherent impedances constituting trip levels.
Now, how many times have we posted these UL reports? I'm loosing track......
There are also UL , as well as CSPC reports focused on trip levels .....
Then there is the slew of OCPD patents , all of which addressed trip levels
oh ,and....if i failed to mention it, the entire (NEC & CEC) OCPD industry has been obsessively focused on trip levels
THAT SAID, find me a trade rag article , IAEI dissertation, Manufacturers public memo , NEC document , (et all bureaucratic trade entities) openly opining on the validity of lower trip levels
thx for playin'!....
~RJ~
mbrooke
Batteries Included
- Location
- United States
- Occupation
- Technician
mbrooke
Batteries Included
- Location
- United States
- Occupation
- Technician
They were derived by UL and used by the CMP to establish that code rule.
Now, how many times have we posted these UL reports? I'm loosing track......
There are also UL , as well as CSPC reports focused on trip levels .....
Before AFCIs the campaign was to lower the magnet trip threshold of standard breakers. The claim made (though only half substantiated) was that short circuits take longer to clear on thermal trip and in turn can start a fire. The only part that was confirmed is that yes, when you short wires together thermal trip takes longer then magnetic trip. Whether 3 half cycles or 80 half cycles trip a breaker has yet to be shown as being responsible for thousands of real world fires.
In fact it was a select few who took the term "short circuit" and added the word "arc" to them.
They have, but it seems only a select few have been pushing it after attaching the word "arc" to short circuit:
http://paceforensic.com/pdfs/newsletter/KeepingPace-37.pdf
http://paceforensic.com/pdfs/newsletter/KeepingPace-15.pdf
http://paceforensic.com/pdfs/newsletter/KeepingPace-7.pdf
THAT SAID, find me a trade rag article , IAEI dissertation, Manufacturers public memo , NEC document , (et all bureaucratic trade entities) openly opining on the validity of lower trip levels
thx for playin'!....
~RJ~
I see it too, and it makes me wonder. It seems like all the concern revolves around trying to get a short circuit to clear in a few cycles without any evidence to suggest fires have resulted from short circuit lasting more then a few cycles.
bphgravity
Senior Member
- Location
- Florida
This is a refrigerator problem, not an AFCI problem. The refrigerator manufacturer will pay for the service and repair of the refrigerator.
If you have a customer with any of the following IKEA, Maytag, or Whirlpool FDBM Refrigerators Models, have them contact the manufacturer and tell them to refer to Technical Service Pointer #:W10806461. The manufacturer will send out a service tech with a quick and simple service Kit that takes less than 20-minutes to install. PROBLEM SOLVED.
IX7DDEXDSM00, MFT2574DEM00, MFT2672AEW12, WRF736SDAB11, WRF736SDAM12, 7WF736SDAM12, IX7DDEXDSM01, MFT2574DEM01, MFT2673BEB11, WRF736SDAB12, WRF736SDAM13, 7WF736SDAM13, MFT2672AEB11, MFT2673BEB12, WRF736SDAB13, WRF736SDAW11, MFT2574DEE00, MFT2672AEB12, MFT2673BEM11, WRF736SDAF11, WRF736SDAW12, MFT2574DEE01, MFT2672AEM11, MFT2673BEM12, WRF736SDAF12, WRF736SDAW13, MFT2574DEH00, MFT2672AEM12, MFT2673BEW11, WRF736SDAF13, MFT2574DEH01, MFT2672AEW11, MFT2673BEW12, WRF736SDAM11, 7WF736SDAM11
All of those customers that have purchased these models and registered them will be contacted by the manufacturer to schedule a repair service, free of charge.
mbrooke
Batteries Included
- Location
- United States
- Occupation
- Technician
mbrooke
Batteries Included
- Location
- United States
- Occupation
- Technician
I tried googling it but the link wont work
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=Technical+Service+Pointer+#:W10806461
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=Technical+Service+Pointer+#:W10806461
- Occupation
- Licensed Electrician
More important question, What hazard in the fridge is the AFCI protecting the household from?Good info thanks!
Question though, what part will have to be repaired or replaced?
mbrooke
Batteries Included
- Location
- United States
- Occupation
- Technician
Good question. Hopefully the service pointer can answer that.
romex jockey
Senior Member
- Location
- Vermont
- Occupation
- electrician
Tech Service please......
Tech Service please......
A most apt and cordial response Mr Holland, i'm moved to the obligatory Xmas card
That said, if we're going to blame shift, please include the means for our viewing audience (I'd wager 10% EC's sea to shining sea here) to specifically dictate to the particular manufacture their exact failing(s)
as always, thx for playin'.....
~RJ~
Tech Service please......
A most apt and cordial response Mr Holland, i'm moved to the obligatory Xmas card
That said, if we're going to blame shift, please include the means for our viewing audience (I'd wager 10% EC's sea to shining sea here) to specifically dictate to the particular manufacture their exact failing(s)
as always, thx for playin'.....
~RJ~
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mbrooke
Batteries Included
- Location
- United States
- Occupation
- Technician
A most apt and cordial response Mr Holland, i'm moved to the obligatory Xmas card
That said, if we're going to blame shift, please include the means for our viewing audience (I'd wager 10% EC's sea to shining sea here) to specifically dictate to the particular manufacture their exact failing(s)
as always, thx for playin'.....
~RJ~
I tried Googling that service paper, but it looks like its only available to service techs. Of course that is Whirlpool's choice, but again why should Whirlpool pay extra (and loose business reputation) over something that is neither a danger or safety risk?
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romex jockey
Senior Member
- Location
- Vermont
- Occupation
- electrician
It appears one has answered your query Mr MBrooke>
Technical Service Pointer #:W10806461
The 'LED driver board' being the afci challenged component in ALL models...
The bulletin is dated Sept 15'
So we are most likely witness to recent stop gap activity, vs. a longer thought out approach....
~RJ~
klineelectric
Member
- Location
- FL
- Occupation
- electrical contractor
Yikes! That must be hell with old wiring. Not to mention all of the shared neutrals of yesteryear. I hope that doesn't make into code since we are not yet required to do that.Generally we eat it & loose credibility Mr. Kline ....The only reason i know is, our (thankfully) ex-chief inspector amended afci protection in our state's take of the NEC a full cycle ahead of the nation in '99 . He also demanded afci's on all service upgrades (the resultant fallout ending up in a slew of 'formal interpretations' serving to create 210.12B's 6' rule btw)
In short, we've simply a longer history of installs on the horizon for the rest of you>>
~RJ~
mbrooke
Batteries Included
- Location
- United States
- Occupation
- Technician
Chancesare it will. The 2017 NEC is supposed to require all 120 volt 15 and 20amp devices to be AFCI protected.
peter d
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
I envy all the areas that are still 3 years behind on the 2014 adoption.
klineelectric
Member
- Location
- FL
- Occupation
- electrical contractor
I saw that and am wondering if its too late for me to become a plumber...
klineelectric
Member
- Location
- FL
- Occupation
- electrical contractor
I envy all the areas that are still 3 years behind on the 2014 adoption.
Florida just adopted 2011 NEC. So I will be paying close attention on here about how those unfortunate EC's with 2014 NEC are coping with the AFCIs in kitchens. Seems like a lot of potential for nuisance trips on those circuits, small motor loads, heating elements etc.
mbrooke
Batteries Included
- Location
- United States
- Occupation
- Technician
I envy all the areas that are still 3 years behind on the 2014 adoption.
:blink::blink: I envy Indiana, they are light years ahead from all of us
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