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In addition to getting a complete understanding of the plans and specs I would pay attention to the schedule you are required to meet. Getting behind schedule can cost you bigtime.

I find most jobs run over the scheduled completion date. I have always (since getting burned years ago) made sure that I didn't hold up the job and if anybody held me up I would notify the customer in writing.
 
Another tip: Keep a daily log book of what you do every day. It doesn't need to be detailed to the minute, but you should be able to have a rough idea what was done on a given day, how many people you had on the job, weather, site conditions, discussions with others, order received, etc.

This log book should not be in a 3-ring binder or spiral-wound book. It must be kept in a form that the pages cannot be changed. This is to prevent someone from making changes later, and thus will allow the log to be used as evidence in court if need be.

Taking photos every day or every other day really helps, too.
 
iwire said:
The smaller the job the less room for mistakes.

I did a Tommy Hilfiger store in a large existing outlet mall.

Pretty small but being a chain store they have very detailed requirements.

A few examples.

The lighting control was via six - 12 pole lighting contactors, pretty normal but the notes required a specific brand and type. That specific type was about twice the price as almost any other.

They needed conduits run into the slabs in certain locations, for both registers and security systems at the doors. If you miss this it will be expensive once the floor finish goes down

The lighting, about 900' of track lighting was to follow the ceiling grid meaning you need to field cut the track many times, this adds time. The fixtures on the tracks where HIDs which in my area require independent support from the ceiling grid so we had to provide 100s of Caddy clips for this.

Then there was the fire alarm system, doing the work in the store was straight forward, relocate some pull stations, horn strobes, add some smokes. But....now it has to be tied into the malls fire alarm panel...Fire department would only allow night time shutdown of fire panel so now we have to pay OT on the job and we have to hire the malls Fire Alarm contractor to re-program the panel and check our work.

They charged us $1,500 for that few minutes of work.

I am not trying to scare you just saying keep your eyes open and if you have a question on who is responsible for what make sure it gets answered before you bid.

Commercial type electrical equipment is not cheap you don't want to give any of it away.
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Excellant view, of a small commercial job.

"They charged us $1,500 for that few minutes of work." good example of what other trades may cost, we had a fire alarm connection, they charged $3,000 for, and we were quoted $1, 700 so be sure to have all your minor, sub work signed and sealed, in writing.
 
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480sparky said:
Another tip: Keep a daily log book of what you do every day. It doesn't need to be detailed to the minute, but you should be able to have a rough idea what was done on a given day, how many people you had on the job, weather, site conditions, discussions with others, order received, etc.
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Gezz that sounds like a survoyers log book but great advice ! :)
 
480sparky said:
Another tip: Keep a daily log book of what you do every day. It doesn't need to be detailed to the minute, but you should be able to have a rough idea what was done on a given day, how many people you had on the job, weather, site conditions, discussions with others, order received, etc.

This log book should not be in a 3-ring binder or spiral-wound book. It must be kept in a form that the pages cannot be changed. This is to prevent someone from making changes later, and thus will allow the log to be used as evidence in court if need be.

Taking photos every day or every other day really helps, too.
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Sounds like an adverserial environment, is it really that bad? e/m.
 
Energy-Miser said:
Sounds like an adverserial environment, is it really that bad? e/m.
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If I might Ad-lib for 480, Weather, people talked to, supplies that came in and logged is a good reminder of things. Broken Pallets/ merchandize, Wally Cut finger, and it rained on him, Etc ... you be surprised how much recall can be had from Crib notes, Etc ... and as he said get a photo !
 
Energy-Miser said:
Sounds like an adverserial environment, is it really that bad? e/m.
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I've only had to use the book as legal leverage once. But that one time saved me $13,000.


CYA is all I can say.
 
like he said (good advice). don't forget the pics either. Its nice to have them with the date stamp on them too. Whether I have signed extra work tickets or not I take pics showing what was done/not done that affected my work, what we did before, after, etc. It really helps to have those pics so when some project manager says there's no way he's paying for the overtime tickets because it wasn't their fault you had to work OT to finish (a month after the job is finished any you want to be paid), and you show him pics of all the stuff that they didn't have in place so that you could finish, it lets them know that if it goes to court they will never win, and so are much more likely to pay.
 
IMHO, this thread is chock full of "insider" tips ....too many good tips to quote and thank all the authors....

Before this thing winds down and is lost in the glut of all the other lost, locked and forgotten post...hit the "Thread Tools" button and print it out: Show Printable Version
 
nakulak said:
like he said (good advice). don't forget the pics either. Its nice to have them with the date stamp on them too. Whether I have signed extra work tickets or not I take pics showing what was done/not done that affected my work, what we did before, after, etc. It really helps to have those pics so when some project manager says there's no way he's paying for the overtime tickets because it wasn't their fault you had to work OT to finish (a month after the job is finished any you want to be paid), and you show him pics of all the stuff that they didn't have in place so that you could finish, it lets them know that if it goes to court they will never win, and so are much more likely to pay.
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One of my electricians is pretty camera ready, so it will help with that. He sometimes emails me pictures of things he has taken in the field, to help us with ordering particularly unusual pieces ! e/m.
 
celtic said:
IMHO, this thread is chock full of "insider" tips ....too many good tips to quote and thank all the authors....

Before this thing winds down and is lost in the glut of all the other lost, locked and forgotten post...hit the "Thread Tools" button and print it out: Show Printable Version
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I did want to print this out, thanks for showing me the way to access the printable version. Peace, e/m.
 
I'm working for a company who is doing just this - primarily residential moving into commercial. I'd suggest that after each of your first few jobs, get the guys together and do a post-mortem (bad choice of words, but you get my drift... :grin:)
Identify the areas that you did well, and areas that need to be improved. It's one thing to make a mistake and learn from it, but quite another to keep repeating the same mistakes. No finger pointing, just try to see where you can improve.
 
JohnJ0906 said:
I'm working for a company who is doing just this - primarily residential moving into commercial. I'd suggest that after each of your first few jobs, get the guys together and do a post-mortem (bad choice of words, but you get my drift... :grin:)
Identify the areas that you did well, and areas that need to be improved. It's one thing to make a mistake and learn from it, but quite another to keep repeating the same mistakes. No finger pointing, just try to see where you can improve.
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Definitely. How much of a transition is it for an electrician to go from residnetial work to commercial work? e/m.
 
480sparky said:
It's a whole different ball game. ;)
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I agree.

That is not to say it is not done all the time but normally at least someone in the company has the experience to train the others.

If none of your help has completed a commercial job from start to finish I think it will be a tough learning experience.

You may want to hire a commercial foreman to help get things rolling. Just having someone the knows what products to buy is a help.

For instance what boxes would you use and how would you support them?

You can pretty much forget about device boxes, it will be 4" squares with plaster rings.

How will you support then to the studs? Will you need far side supports?

If your using MC are you familiar with Caddy CJ-6s or other MC stacker supports?
 
iwire said:
I agree.

That is not to say it is not done all the time but normally at least someone in the company has the experience to train the others....
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Yes definitely will need a good commercial guy in the mix, before taking it to the next level. Thanks iwire. e/m.
 
Do you guys ever sub out the underground such as conduit & transformer vaults or is this where alot of the profit is at. Ive been offered jobs that need alot of underground work but am reluctant due to the costly mistakes that can be made.
 
normbac said:
Do you guys ever sub out the underground such as conduit & transformer vaults or is this where alot of the profit is at.
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The companies I have worked for all did it themselves.

However in this area most of the time ECs do not excavate, the excavating is 'by others' so all we have to worry about is the actual electric work.
 
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