The future of AFCIs and their impact on small businesses

[kwired]

Too high.

"The fact that ECs have to supply materials is one of the things that sets us apart from a lot of other subs"

You're going to have to help explain this to me. an EC is no more a bank than any other trade. If it's not a T&M job, a portion of payment is expected up front. My thinking is "if you cant afford, at the very least, materials up front, why should I believe you can afford any of the work?".

Is this mostly industry-wide where ECs are installing materials on their own dime? If so, this has to stop. You wouldnt expect a fancy countertop co to install a $10,000 tiger stripe unobtanium-rock countertop in your home w/o at least first paying for the custom countertop, would you?

I remember a comm job I did about 7 years ago, talking to the head electrician there... he was lamenting that they were almost $200k in arrears on that project just on materials. It didnt make sense then and it doesnt now.

Some of this comes from in order to be competitive there are those out there that hose the rest of the trade by their methods. Unfortunately their methods end up putting them out of business in the long run if they don't change them.

HVAC trades and even plumbers will compete against one another and do generally need to supply materials for what they do, yet don't seem to screw over the whole trade with their business practices as much as electricians seem to.

Framers and drywallers or other similar type trades often are only providing labor or limited materials so it is easier for them to put in their time then collect for it, as they don't have a huge material bill to lay down and hope to get reimbursed in a reasonable time for it.

 

[romex jockey]

I think I might have misinterpreted your post. Were you suggesting that the startup ECs gain "some real world viability?"

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

No Sir Mr Kenman

I was suggesting , by way of the OP, ethernet capable ocpd's elevate afci technology to viable status ,SCADA comes to mind btw...

An EC's viability (like myself) would be more akin to a 'Pirates of the Caribbean' episode , which is beyond CMP-2's concern or capability...

~RJ~

 

[hbiss]

The question that I'm posing is that it would seem that the ultimate future of AFCIs will be for them eventually to become smart breakers installed in a separate, dual
voltage panel, with network access, so as to enable updates on arc detail to be uploaded to the panel.

So what you are really suggesting is that the AFCI manufacturers adopt the IT business model. That is they sell you something that doesn't work and continually charge you for upgrades. A never ending gravy train that takes money from your pocket and puts it into theirs. Not to mention the costs for internet access and support which you seem to forget does not always exist in many locations.

-Hal

 

[kwired]

So what you are really suggesting is that the AFCI manufacturers adopt the IT business model. That is they sell you something that doesn't work and continually charge you for upgrades. A never ending gravy train that takes money from your pocket and puts it into theirs. Not to mention the costs for internet access and support which you seem to forget does not always exist in many locations.

-Hal

Sounds reasonably accurate. Don't know which emoticon to follow with though:happyno::happyyes::happysad::roll:

 

[kenman215]

So what you are really suggesting is that the AFCI manufacturers adopt the IT business model. That is they sell you something that doesn't work and continually charge you for upgrades. A never ending gravy train that takes money from your pocket and puts it into theirs. Not to mention the costs for internet access and support which you seem to forget does not always exist in many locations.

-Hal

I'm certainly not suggesting what should be, just what I think the ultimate end game will be. I think that we all realize that this technology has all of the earmarks of a snowball rolling down Everest and none of us truly know how big it's going to be when it reaches the bottom. Only time will tell...

 

[kenman215]

Too high.

"The fact that ECs have to supply materials is one of the things that sets us apart from a lot of other subs"

You're going to have to help explain this to me. an EC is no more a bank than any other trade. If it's not a T&M job, a portion of payment is expected up front. My thinking is "if you cant afford, at the very least, materials up front, why should I believe you can afford any of the work?".

Is this mostly industry-wide where ECs are installing materials on their own dime? If so, this has to stop. You wouldnt expect a fancy countertop co to install a $10,000 tiger stripe unobtanium-rock countertop in your home w/o at least first paying for the custom countertop, would you?

I remember a comm job I did about 7 years ago, talking to the head electrician there... he was lamenting that they were almost $200k in arrears on that project just on materials. It didnt make sense then and it doesnt now.

I thinly that things are done differently, once more better, where you are from. The fact is that most small residential builders (up to 30-40 homes annually) here, have the exact relationship with their electricians as I have described. They run up a bill with their contractors to the point that they refuse more work sans payment, then find a new EC, promising them steady work and prompt payment, simply to start the cycle over again. It's a sad truth around these parts, but, unfortunately, is more of the rule then the exception.

 

[bphgravity]

The only major advancements in AFCI technology that you should expect in the near term would be:

1. auto-monitoring / self-test function AFCIs similar to the recent progression of GFCIs.

and

2. dual-function AFCI-GFCI receptacles.


That's about it for now...

 

[romex jockey]

I can almost hear the clouds part and angels singing at manufacturers 1/4lys.....~RJ~

 

[peter d]

The only major advancements in AFCI technology that you should expect in the near term would be:

1. auto-monitoring / self-test function AFCIs similar to the recent progression of GFCIs.

and

2. dual-function AFCI-GFCI receptacles.


That's about it for now...

More worthless products being forced up on us by corrupt manufacturers and code making organizations.