The infamous and elusive UFER

[infinity]

Usually shown on the plans as a requirement. (Note comments does not say if rebar is in the installation, but: to make sure the CEE is incorporated.

What's shown on plans and whats required by the NEC isn't always the same thing. No rebar no CEE required.

 

[roger]

This is supported by Exhibit 250.22 comments (see attached file of comments)

You do realize that the HB comments are simply opinions and are not code requirements? There are structures that don't incorporate footers in the design.

 

[Strathead]

Then it doesn't qualify as a CEE ("in direct contact with earth"). 250.52(A)(3), The informational note confirms this.

This is what I almost always see down here in central Florida. Yet we still put a ufer in anyway. We always supplement with 2 ground rods, but I can't get my company to change their ways.

 

[jaggedben]

Yes I understand where you're coming from. But the requirement from most jurisdictions is you shall have your CEE in place to pass your foundation inspection. ...

I have certainly seen this, but it doesn't come from the NEC, it comes from other local rules. You correctly refer here to a foundation inspection, not an electrical inspection.

 

[electrofelon]

I would like to know how many structures in America have concrete that doesn't have rebar , and would qualify as a CEE if you put in the #4. Maybe 7?

 

[infinity]

I would like to know how many structures in America have concrete that doesn't have rebar , and would qualify as a CEE if you put in the #4. Maybe 7?

I did a house once where they had 3/8" rebar. Building inspector came the morning of the footing pour to inspect the footing and failed them for no CEE. The Mason ran to home depot and bought a piece of #6 bare copper and a rebar clamp. Inspector came back and passed it while the concrete truck was waiting. I came in to do the 200 amp service and cut the #6 off.

 

[hillbilly1]

Fiberglass reinforced concrete used to be popular, don’t know it that’s still the case.

 

[TX+ MASTER#4544]

You've ALL missed 250.52 (3) (2) That you can put a bare copper not smaller than 4awg in the concrete when the rebar is not there! Like a Post tension slab foundation. I still want to know who the "engineer" is or the engineering document that states the side of the footing is enough contact with the earth is acceptable or does this commentary satisfy. see exhibit 250.23 NEC 2017

The engineer who founded this particular method was Mr. Herbert Ufer, PE, somewhere in Arizona, I believe.
Some call it the Ufer ground, named in honor of Mr. Ufer.

TX+MASTER#4544

 

[brycenesbitt]

What if it’s slab on grade with a vapor barrier?

What if it's slab on grade with 4" of solid foam insulation, a vapor barrier, and gravel? And that foam extends up the outside, encasing the slab?

 

[roger]

What if it's slab on grade with 4" of solid foam insulation, a vapor barrier, and gravel? And that foam extends up the outside, encasing the slab?

It's not a CEE

 

[TX+ MASTER#4544]

What happens when rebar is epoxy coated? Will it still get 25 ohms or less?

2023 NEC TX
Forget about the 25 Ohms or less.
250.52(A)(3) either (1) or (2)

Thanks for reading
Comments accepted
TX+MASTER#4544