The most commonly ignored code rule

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dnem said:
What would you list as the most commonly ignored code rule ?
Maybe you have one for contractors and one for inspectors, maybe not.

For both contractors and inspectors, I'm going to list 240.4(B)(1), no "one up" for cord n plug.
Everybody seems "on board" with 240.4(B)(2) and checking out 240.6(A).
Everybody seems "on board" with 240.4(B)(3) and stopping the "one up" at 800a.
But no "one up" for cord n plug loads gets ignored, in my experience.

Should somebody just submit a code proposal to throw it out ?
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box fill for sure.
 
wirebender said:
Travelers are not "return conductor from the switch to the switched outlet".

Article 100

Current is not taken from the travelers to supply utilization equipment.
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It most certainly is. Remove the travelers and there is no current to the load. The travelers are not constantly hot, therefore they are part of the switched leg. They are part of the return conductor path to the switched outlet.

My understanding of why a white cannot be reidentified except when used as a constant hot is so that it never looks like a neutral to either a wiggy or tic trace or meter.
Seems like I learned that as an apprrentice, but I cant say for sure.

I do know that apprentices here get drilled in class that with cable assemblies in a dead-end three-3way or in a switch-loop, the reidentified white shall be the constantly hot and the black (and or red) shall be the switched conductor (and or travelers). 200.7 (C)(2).

200.7 (C)(1) does not overrule it, as it is only in the exception allowed in (C)(2) that you may reidentify the white in a cable assembly, and only within the parameters it gives...e.g. only the supply to the switch.

Jack
 
i think the most commonly ignored code rules that i see is torquing conductors and box fill. i have to admit i just started recently using torque wrenches to tighten down my conductors in panels. im going to be buying a torquing screwdriver once i save up 200 dollars :D
 
electricalperson said:
i think the most commonly ignored code rules that i see is torquing conductors and box fill. i have to admit i just started recently using torque wrenches to tighten down my conductors in panels. im going to be buying a torquing screwdriver once i save up 200 dollars :D
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I can honestly admit that I've never had my hands on a torque wrench or screwdriver. I probably wouldn't know one if I saw one!
 
JHMaynard said:
It most certainly is. Remove the travelers and there is no current to the load. The travelers are not constantly hot, therefore they are part of the switched leg. They are part of the return conductor path to the switched outlet.

My understanding of why a white cannot be reidentified except when used as a constant hot is so that it never looks like a neutral to either a wiggy or tic trace or meter.
Seems like I learned that as an apprrentice, but I cant say for sure.

I do know that apprentices here get drilled in class that with cable assemblies in a dead-end three-3way or in a switch-loop, the reidentified white shall be the constantly hot and the black (and or red) shall be the switched conductor (and or travelers). 200.7 (C)(2).

200.7 (C)(1) does not overrule it, as it is only in the exception allowed in (C)(2) that you may reidentify the white in a cable assembly, and only within the parameters it gives...e.g. only the supply to the switch.

Jack
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Every time that I wire a dead end 3-way switch I make the black hot and the red and white are my travellers. That's how I learned and that's how I've done them ever since. I see nothing wrong with that. In fact in my world and in my geographical area if you used the white or the red as hot and not the black then that would be deemed odd or wrong or dumb to do it that way. Even if it's wrong by code I've never heard of it being wrong and never had it fail and I bet I never will have it fail while I'm still going to continue doing it that way.
 
steelersman said:
Every time that I wire a dead end 3-way switch I make the black hot and the red and white are my travellers. That's how I learned and that's how I've done them ever since. I see nothing wrong with that. In fact in my world and in my geographical area if you used the white or the red as hot and not the black then that would be deemed odd or wrong or dumb to do it that way. Even if it's wrong by code I've never heard of it being wrong and never had it fail and I bet I never will have it fail while I'm still going to continue doing it that way.
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Well now that we all know how you have been doing it, how you plan to do and how you don't care if it's a violtion maybe we can talk about what the NEC requires. :D
 
steelersman said:
good idea. go for it. I'm listening.
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I think it is quite reasonable for an inspector to say using the white as a traveler is a violation. IMO it is not the supply to the switch. I also really don't care one way or another.

My real point was this is an NEC forum, in general people come here to learn the NEC requirements not how each one of us chooses to do it. :)
 
iwire said:
I think it is quite reasonable for an inspector to say using the white as a traveler is a violation. IMO it is not the supply to the switch. I also really don't care one way or another.

My real point was this is an NEC forum, in general people come here to learn the NEC requirements not how each one of us chooses to do it. :)
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fair enough. I just fail to see what is wrong with using white as a traveller, especially if it's marked with black tape.
 
steelersman said:
fair enough. I just fail to see what is wrong with using white as a traveller, especially if it's marked with black tape.
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My only issue with it is it may be against the NEC, I don't see a real safety issue.

But I live in MA, here they amended that NEC section and I don't have to remark the white. :cool:
 
iwire said:
My only issue with it is it may be against the NEC, I don't see a real safety issue.

But I live in MA, here they amended that NEC section and I don't have to remark the white. :cool:
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I don't think we do here in VA either. Well at least I never have and haven't been failed. And I've never come across anyone else's wiring who has taped it either.
 
JHMaynard said:
It most certainly is. Remove the travelers and there is no current to the load.
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Remove the hot and there is no current either. The point I was trying to make is that travelers are not return conductors from the switch to the switched outlet.

JHMaynard said:
They are part of the return conductor path to the switched outlet.
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The Code says nothing about the return conductor path.

JHMaynard said:
My understanding of why a white cannot be reidentified except when used as a constant hot is so that it never looks like a neutral to either a wiggy or tic trace or meter.
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And that has nothing to do with what the code says.


JHMaynard said:
I do know that apprentices here get drilled in class that with cable assemblies in a dead-end three-3way or in a switch-loop, the reidentified white shall be the constantly hot and the black (and or red) shall be the switched conductor (and or travelers). 200.7 (C)(2).
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What is taught there has nothing to do with what the code says either.

JHMaynard said:
200.7 (C)(1) does not overrule it, as it is only in the exception allowed in (C)(2) that you may reidentify the white in a cable assembly, and only within the parameters it gives...e.g. only the supply to the switch.
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iwire said:
IMO it is not the supply to the switch.
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If the travelers don't supply a switch, what do they supply? They are only connected to the switch.

They certainly aren't the
return conductor from the switch to the switched outlet.
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If they are not the supply to the switch and they are not the return conductor from the switch to the switched outlet, then 200.7(C)(1) doesn't apply to them and we revert back to (C)(2).

Of course this is all my opinion and has nothing to do with what the code says.:D
 
peter d said:
I don't live or work in MA and I never remark a white wire. :D
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How remarkable! ;)

I never make two dead-end 3-way switching setups, I run switch-to-switch, and I always feed the always-hot through to the last switch on the white, unless it is the grounded conductor to the load.

I'm waiting for someone two make 3-conductor cable with no white conductors. A black - red - blue cable would be nice. Until then, white re-colors well with Sharpies; I carry an assortment of colors.
 
wirebender said:
The Code says nothing about the return conductor path.



And that has nothing to do with what the code says.




What is taught there has nothing to do with what the code says either.






If the travelers don't supply a switch, what do they supply? They are only connected to the switch.

D
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Ok, Wirebender, I'm willing to learn. Just what exactly does 200.7(C)(2) mean? I've given my opinion and you have dismissed it as "nothing to do with what the code says." Maybe you can translate the article for me.
 
peter d said:
Really? Any particular reason?

I always wire 3-ways in a manner that will use the least amount of wire.
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The labor spent making up all those connections in the ceiling box can sometimes outweigh the cable savings. Just depends. I try not to do it that way unless I have some compelling reason, like in old work where it'll be easier to just fish one 14-3 to each switch box.
 
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