The need for a lighting contactor.

[PistolP]

I was approached by a friend of mine that has a new business and when the sign guys hung the sign on the front of building informed her that there was no power run for the sign. She had a couple of contracts give her a bid on doing the work. One told her that she was going to need a lighting contactor and the other one said she could just use a switch. The sign is made of many LEDs and what she tells me is that she was told that total amperage is 4 amps on 120v. She asked me I told her I'm not sure, because I'm not sure if Leds would have an inrush of current upon being turned on.I am curious on what the requirements for a lighting contactor are in this situation.

 

[ActionDave]

Welcome to the forum.

There is never a requirement for a lighting contactor. There may be advantages to using one. From what you describe a simple switch would be fine.

 

[jumper]

If this was an existing commercial occupancy, there should have a sign circuit already if it was wired under recent codes. NEC 600.5.

 

[tw1156]

Illinois looks to have adopted the IECC 2015, but I'm unable to locate Red Bud's requirements. In looking at IECC 2015, the following requirements would come in to play here:

C405.2.5 - Exterior Lighting Controls. Lighting for exterior applications other than emergency lighting that is intended to be automatically off during building operation, lighting specifically required to meet health and life safety requirements or decorative gas lighting systems shall:

1. Be provided with a control that automatically turns off the lighting as a function of available daylight.
2. Where lighting... (this section not applicable)
3. Where not covered in Item 2.... (this section not applicable)

All time switches shall be able to retain programming and the time setting during loss of power for a period of at least 10 hours.

I understand this to mean the exterior electric signage to be controlled via photocell/timeclock. Looking further into IECC though, you do not have to include this signage as part of the exterior lighting allowance per the following:

C405.5.1 - Exterior Building Power - The total exterior lighting power allowance.....
Exception: Lighting used for hte following exterior applications is exempt where equipped with a control device independent of the control of the nonexempt lighting:
1....
2. Advertising Signage or directional signage.

In my opinion the IECC is sending a conflicting message here as the exterior building power requirements only note that a separate control is required (and does not reference the section with it being part of a function of daylight). I could see this argued either way, but I would recommend it be placed on some sort of timeclock to automatically control the circuit.

 

[AKElectrician]

All the contactors I put in were either over 30 Amps, or controlled by a photocell.

 

[jeremysterling]

C'mon folks, just wire it to a simple timeclock, like an $40 in-wall astronomical timer. Done.

 

[AKElectrician]

C'mon folks, just wire it to a simple timeclock, like an $40 in-wall astronomical timer. Done.

Do those account for huge swings in daylight? Where I live it is light right now at 8-9am depending on cloud cover. Soon it'll be light enough at 4-5am to where lights are not needed.

 

[ActionDave]

Do those account for huge swings in daylight? Where I live it is light right now at 8-9am depending on cloud cover. Soon it'll be light enough at 4-5am to where lights are not needed.

Programmable time clock or series a simple mechanical time clock with a photo cell.

 

[AKElectrician]

Programmable time clock or series a simple mechanical time clock with a photo cell.

Or a photocell and a contactor then when the power goes out for hours your not having to reset anything. Replaced more timers than contactors...

 

[George Stolz]

With an Intermatic EI600 you can set the latitude more conservatively or liberally if desired to account for cloud cover, and have the added benefit of being able to shut the sign off at closing time, or manually override it at will without electrical tape. They are not bothered by power outages; even pulling out the battery to replace it doesn't lose the time or programming.

 

[AKElectrician]

With an Intermatic EI600 you can set the latitude more conservatively or liberally if desired to account for cloud cover, and have the added benefit of being able to shut the sign off at closing time, or manually override it at will without electrical tape. They are not bothered by power outages; even pulling out the battery to replace it doesn't lose the time or programming.

I think I am distracting from the OP. I gave my method, but its based on practices in my area which have some special circumstances.

I have been TOLD that Astro Clocks are terrible for Alaska. That said I have NEVER even seen one installed here, so they could have improved and nobody has used one, but all inquires I have made the answers been don't bother they don't work here. Looking at the instructions the map they show, showing the zone you live in doesn't even show Alaska. Says use North if your in Canada nothing about Alaska. I ASSUME that they don't have enough settings memory to account for amount of swing we have in daylight. We can gain or lose 1-5 min of daylight in a day, not much a day but a week or month it changes quick. Most Places around here use the signs as security lights and want them on illuminating their entrances, so they don't want them off at closing time.

They do look nice for customer use though, leave em the instructions and tell em to have fun call if you can't figure it out, might buy one and mess with it at my house.

Instructions
https://www.intermatic.com/-/media/inriver/11657-10594.ashx/ST01-ST01K-EI600 Instructions-EN

 

[GoldDigger]

Which is why one of our members developed a plug-in replacement for standard luminaire photocells which uses GPS to find the actual latitude and longitude as well as time. It uses that to accurately determine local sunrise and sunset (even if you are not in the center of a time zone!)
It does not, however, take into account local weather, topography, or vegetation.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

 

[AKElectrician]

Which is why one of our members developed a plug-in replacement for standard luminaire photocells which uses GPS to find the actual latitude and longitude as well as time. It uses that to accurately determine local sunrise and sunset (even if you are not in the center of a time zone!)
It does not, however, take into account local weather, topography, or vegetation.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

Cool beans... How much?

 

[jumper]

Cool beans... How much?

Check your PM.

I just sent link to the website.

 

[RumRunner]

Or a photocell and a contactor then when the power goes out for hours your not having to reset anything. Replaced more timers than contactors...

So, what do you do during the summer solstice when the sun never sets for 24 hours. Parts of Alaska within or near the Arctic circle and other countries like Finland, Denmark and Iceland, have a few days of this "midnight sun" cyclic occurrence.

Be extremely weird for a semi-tropical guy (like me) to go nightclubbing in the middle of the day. :roll:

 

[AKElectrician]

So, what do you do during the summer solstice when the sun never sets for 24 hours. Parts of Alaska within or near the Arctic circle and other countries like Finland, Denmark and Iceland, have a few days of this "midnight sun" cyclic occurrence.

Be extremely weird for a semi-tropical guy (like me) to go nightclubbing in the middle of the day. :roll:

Enjoy it while it lasts...

 

[AKElectrician]

Check your PM.

I just sent link to the website.

Things pretty sweet. Do metal roofs affect its signal? My GPS experiences is it needs a clear view of the sky most roofs, even eves don't allow them to work. If it has to be in a clear view of the sky I don't see how its better than a photocell. Hard to improve on that design other than make it more sensitive. If they aren't affected then yeah these things would be awesome.

 

[ActionDave]

Things pretty sweet. Do metal roofs affect its signal? My GPS experiences is it needs a clear view of the sky most roofs, even eves don't allow them to work. If it has to be in a clear view of the sky .

You do need a partial view of the sky, some obstruction is ok.

I don't see how its better than a photocell.....

What do you do when you want the lights to come on at sunset but you want them to go out before sunrise?

 

[jumper]

Things pretty sweet. Do metal roofs affect its signal? My GPS experiences is it needs a clear view of the sky most roofs, even eves don't allow them to work. If it has to be in a clear view of the sky I don't see how its better than a photocell. Hard to improve on that design other than make it more sensitive. If they aren't affected then yeah these things would be awesome.

I am clueless, never installed one.

Call him, ask for Mike.

 

[AKElectrician]

You do need a partial view of the sky, some obstruction is ok.

What do you do when you want the lights to come on at sunset but you want them to go out before sunrise?

Guess I call that guy and have him program me a sensor for the customer...