This horse is dead and mushy but here goes anyway

[peter d]

I was at Home De....errrr...I mean the orange box today and saw one of our large New England based EC's doing lighting maintenance on all of the outdoor parking lot and facade lighting.

Nothing out of the ordinary except they were changing all of the dead lamps and ballasts out live. I'm guessing they over rode the energy management system because everything in the lot and on the building was lit (except for the dead stuff of course.) One guy had a ballast taken out of a pole light with the other 2 heads lit and another had a wall pack hanging by the wires. The poles are likely 480, wallpacks are likely 277 volts.

Besides the shock hazard there is also the danger of lamp breakage. Seems pretty foolish to be removing live HID lamps that could very well be frozen in the sockets, but that's just me. How hard would it be to take inventory of the dead stuff by putting a piece of tape at the bottom of each pole with a dead lamp, then killing the power?

I just kinda shook my head and saw in real life why we have so many statistics about electrocutions and injuries. There was no justifiable reason to do any of that work live, other than perhaps they might get to leave the job an hour early from the time saved to walk back and forth to the electric room a few times. :roll:

 

[TOOL_5150]

That is just sad....

The electrician that doesnt respect electricity, never gets to become an old electrician.

~Matt

 

[hillbilly1]

A couple of months ago a parking lot lighting maintaince guy was electrocuted doing the same thing on a Blue box, The lamp broke, and he was grounded by holding the cover open with the other hand. I think the kid was around 23 years old.

 

[TOOL_5150]

I think the kid was around 23 years old.

That explains it. Most kids that age dont think anything can hurt them.

~Matt

 

[stickboy1375]

Wonder if they are going against company policy or not?

 

[peter d]

Wonder if they are going against company policy or not?

I was actually wondering that myself. They had their names all over their trucks and I know they are a big company that has done many big jobs in this area. I would hope that in this day and age they have some kind of safety policy in affect.

It just saddens me to see stuff like that going on when just a little bit of extra work can make the job so much safer, at least from an shock and burn standpoint.

 

[frizbeedog]

Additional safety tip

Additional safety tip

Wear gloves when removing the lamps. I've had them shatter trying to remove them because they were siezed in the socket.

Oh yea, eye protection for the shattering glass.

 

[celtic]

Is it possible each pole was fused individually?

 

[480sparky]

Is it possible each pole was fused individually?

That was exactly my thought... you just type faster than I do.

 

[TOOL_5150]

Wear gloves when removing the lamps. I've had them shatter trying to remove them because they were siezed in the socket.

Oh yea, eye protection for the shattering glass.

I was replacing MH bulbs yesterday and wore gloves because most of them were really hard to get out, not to mention one was still pretty warm.

I just kept my eyes out of the way. The reflector lenses took care of glass shielding. :wink:

~Matt

 

[peter d]

Is it possible each pole was fused individually?

It's certainly possible. Being a Home Depot (built cheap) I doubt it but still possible.

But I really doubt they have fuses because the poles in the HD are typically 3 heads each, and at 480 volts that would require 6 separate fuses in the base, assuming separate protection for each head.

The one pole I saw the guy working on had 2 other heads lit while he repaired the ballast in the 3rd head. So that rules out having a single set of fuses in the base, and I seriously doubt they have 6 fuses. But I could be wrong.

Even if they had fuses, that would require cracking a 277 volt fuse holder open live. I think that would require some level of PPE, no?

 

[frizbeedog]

faster (money), quicker (ca-ching), speed (bling), profit (promotion).

....dead?

 

[quogueelectric]

Wonder if they are going against company policy or not?

Almost all large companys hand out a brochure on company policy imediately on first hire and it lays out safety issues Which you must sign that you recieved. Your completion of osha 10/30 , Built right ,nfpa 70e , You have been documented as you are a QUALIFIED individual and if you get hurt you already know better and it sucks to be you when you get electrocuted. OH well the cow got electrocuted but he signed all these certifications that he knew better. Not my problem. Get it????

 

[480sparky]

......But I really doubt they have fuses because the poles in the HD are typically 3 heads each, and at 480 volts that would require 6 separate fuses in the base, assuming separate protection for each head.....

You really think the 3 heads on one pole are on seperate circuits?

Maybe one here and one there, as night-lights for security between midnight and 5AM....

 

[peter d]

You really think the 3 heads on one pole are on seperate circuits?

Maybe one here and one there, as night-lights for security between midnight and 5AM....

No, that's not what I was saying at all. I was just theorizing that to individually fuse protect each head would require 6 separate fuses (highly unlikely.) And as I stated, with 2 heads lit while the guy was changing out the ballast in the 3rd head, that rules out a single set of 2 fuses protecting a single set of wires at 480 volts. Either that or he didn't bother to remove the fuses at the base he was working on.

I was just saying that with the cost of fuse holders I highly doubt these heads have individual protection.

Maybe someone who has wired an HD can set me straight.

 

[480sparky]

No, that's not what I was saying at all. I was just theorizing that to individually fuse protect each head would require 6 separate fuses (highly unlikely.) And as I stated, with 2 heads lit while the guy was changing out the ballast in the 3rd head, that rules out a single set of 2 fuses protecting a single set of wires at 480 volts. Either that or he didn't bother to remove the fuses at the base he was working on.

I was just saying that with the cost of fuse holders I highly doubt these heads have individual protection.

Maybe someone who has wired an HD can set me straight.

Even if they were on one circuit, why protect all three with individual fuses and run 6 wires up the pole? I too, doubt they're fused, and the idio....er, electricians, were working them hot.

 

[peter d]

That was exactly my thought... you just type faster than I do.

So the thought never crossed your mind that these guys just might be working this stuff live? You know what takes places in this industry and I highly doubt you have your head stuck in the sand.

I'd wager a guess that this happens all the time, and that's why we have the statistics that we do. That's the main point I'm trying to get across here. There may be younger guys coming up in the trade who may find themselves in one of these situations, and at the very least they can be educated about what is right and wrong, safe or unsafe and decide for themselves the best course of action.

 

[peter d]

Even if they were on one circuit, why protect all three with individual fuses and run 6 wires up the pole? I too, doubt they're fused, and the idio....er, electricians, were working them hot.

Now I type too slow.

 

[peter d]

Even if they were on one circuit, why protect all three with individual fuses and run 6 wires up the pole?

I can't think of any reason other than to keep some lights on if a fault occurs...I'm just trying to reverse engineer what I saw to determine what was and what wasn't.

I have never done a WalMart but I have seen a base open and all I saw were wirenuts sticking out...no fuses at all.

 

[480sparky]

So the thought never crossed your mind that these guys just might be working this stuff live? .....

See post 16......