This is a First For Me

Status
Not open for further replies.

gadfly56

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Professional Engineer, Fire & Life Safety
It seems to me that there should be a deadline for plan permitting; if the AHJ does not provide a judgement within X number of business days, the permit is automatically issued. :D
No, in NJ it is considered automatically denied.
 

goldstar

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
We are hearing about sporadic delays in permitting and inspections around here. My most recent project was no problem at all, but a friend in the next town over has been waiting a month. His is a solar installation and the federal tax break changes after Dec 31, so the end user is in a meltdown panic.
In a weird kind of way I can understand the delay in that case. I'm sure there are plans and specs submitted for a solar installationm and the need for a plan review. However, how difficult is coming up with a cost for an 200 amp electrical service upgrade permit ??? A township must do dozens a month. Does one vary from another that much in terms of $$ ?
 

kec

Senior Member
Location
CT
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Here's what I would do, if you are a hold a valid license in the state and are confident you will not blown anything up, then do the job.
after 2 days from permit issue, call for inspection. I doubt the inspector is lurking to see if you did the job. If so tell them the meter jaws were burnt. Seems like a delay in paper work.
I know I'm going to here it about this.☹️
 

ggunn

PE (Electrical), NABCEP certified
Location
Austin, TX, USA
Occupation
Electrical Engineer - Photovoltaic Systems
We are hearing about sporadic delays in permitting and inspections around here. My most recent project was no problem at all, but a friend in the next town over has been waiting a month. His is a solar installation and the federal tax break changes after Dec 31, so the end user is in a meltdown panic.
I am not a tax expert, but it may be that eligibility for the ITC depends on when the system is paid for, not when it is built. We had a customer a couple of years ago who paid for a PV system before his house was built so that he could get the tax credit before the ITC changed. I don't know if it worked for him, though.
 

gadfly56

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Professional Engineer, Fire & Life Safety
You understood it was a joke, right? Just checking.
I didn't know if it was wishful thinking or if some parts of TX actually do that. There are 50 states, and maybe some of them issue by default. The OP is in NJ, and NJ denies by default.
 

goldstar

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
I didn't know if it was wishful thinking or if some parts of TX actually do that. There are 50 states, and maybe some of them issue by default. The OP is in NJ, and NJ denies by default.
Just an update, after 22 days I finally got a phone call that my permit app was ready. This is a sad commentary for this municipality.
 

gadfly56

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Professional Engineer, Fire & Life Safety
Just an update, after 22 days I finally got a phone call that my permit app was ready. This is a sad commentary for this municipality.
Although not strictly speaking "my" permit, I am part of a package that first got lost, and then was supposed to be "expedited" by the town on re-submission. I think we will be at 15 business days on the re-submission at the end of this week.
 

Fred B

Senior Member
Location
Upstate, NY
Occupation
Electrician
Don't think 22 days is bad. Got one it'll likely be next spring before getting all the approvals, by time we get the variances, planning board, DEC and FEMA approvals. That is just to put in a shore power pedestal. Variance was 2 and a half months to get.
 

gadfly56

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Professional Engineer, Fire & Life Safety
Although not strictly speaking "my" permit, I am part of a package that first got lost, and then was supposed to be "expedited" by the town on re-submission. I think we will be at 15 business days on the re-submission at the end of this week.
So, I double checked the date. Resubmission was made on 10-21, so we are officially at 23 business days, or 21 if you pull out Columbus Day and Veterans Day. So, don't be in a hurry if you're doing work in Bogota, NJ.
 

Open Neutral

Senior Member
Location
Inside the Beltway
Occupation
Engineer
The clerk told me that they are running 20 BUSINESS DAYS for approvals. I mentioned that this was for an electrical service upgrade (pretty basic thing I would guess). She said it didn't matter - it's 20 business days - 20 business days is 4 weeks, last time I checked.

Bainbridge Island, WA was 2+ months behind this spring and summer on any permit. It drove the GC I work with out there to the edge of tears. They closed the office for a month, to work on the backlog....
 
I feel all your pain. I am in a Indianapolis. My day job is working as an ordinary hand mostly factory machinery moves. I work for an EC and I don’t know if the slowdown in permitting effects them. I also have a license and on rare occasions I will do a residential service change on my own. I went to get a permit a couple days ago. My first one this year. When I got online there was a notice that permits were averaging 21 days. I was shocked! I was hoping that a simple meter base and service mast change would be quick turnaround(like the original poster). My customer was feeling a sense of urgency because she was trying to sell the house and needed more overhead clearance. I submitted online at night and got an immediate computer generated receipt. Late the next morning I got an email approval pending payment. I paid my fee online and got an immediate email with a printable permit I can’t complain.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
Don't think 22 days is bad. Got one it'll likely be next spring before getting all the approvals, by time we get the variances, planning board, DEC and FEMA approvals. That is just to put in a shore power pedestal. Variance was 2 and a half months to get.
I don't think that you can compare the variance process to getting a permit for a service upgrade. 22 days for a simple electrical permit that requires zero plan review is ridiculous.
 

goldstar

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
I submitted online at night and got an immediate computer generated receipt. Late the next morning I got an email approval pending payment. I paid my fee online and got an immediate email with a printable permit I can’t complain.
Consider yourself lucky. Go buy a lottery ticket. :cool:
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
Consider yourself lucky. Go buy a lottery ticket. :cool:

I feel for you and it seems such an archaic system. We file for a permit online and we get an email within hours, in some cases, with the permit approval.

Some areas are worse than others but almost all handle the permit process in a day.
 
TAKE A BREATH AND LOOK AT THE OTHER SIDE.

I worked as an inspector for over 25 years. Yes, we got 8 holidays a year and yes we got 2+ weeks of paid vacation, and were pretty much assured of continuous employment after the first five years. But we got yelled at, threatened, spat on, had guns pointed at us, called at home at 2:00 AM, had garbage dumped on our doorstep, and generally got pretty low pay.

I knew my job. I knew the code better than masters with 30 years experience. I inspected 15 to 20 jobs every day and was expected to be on time and not miss anything, and if I did, was pulled into court fights between owners and contractors. I got pulled into court fights between contractor and other contractors, and between contractors and their employees.

EVERY jurisdiction in the country is facing an attitude of smaller government, lower fees and taxes, and “anything government is evil” mostly thanks to talk radio and cable TV, without the smallest bit of actual knowledge of what really goes on in the field. Electrical inspectors, zoning officials and city planners all get lumped together into one group that nobody likes and wants to eliminate. That is, until someone wants to open a gravel pit next to your subdivision, or someone wants to open an auto paint spraying business next to your business, or your house burns down due to an unlicensed contractor who worked on it a week ago. Then the inspector who was at a jobsite a block away gets dragged into court because he should have seen the work when he drove by.

Yes, people are leaving those jobs at an amazing rate. Some take early retirement (like me), some find less stressful work in the private sector, some just can’t stand it anymore. And the office staff have it just as bad. They get the brunt of the phone calls, some of the threats, even lower wages and are still expected to answer all the code questions and get the permits out within a couple hours. I know some jurisdictions that used to have five people in the office and now have two. And those could be be because those two can’t find work elsewhere. It is no wonder that your permit takes four weeks to issue and two weeks to get an inspection. No one wants these jobs anymore, and it is going to get worse.

I have been retired for 6 years and just had an older contractor call me because he saw a job posting for an inspector position. He thought it might be a good job to take until he can retire, since he finds it too hard on his body to do the field work anymore. He wanted to know what I thought. He would have made a great inspector. He has the knowledge, he knows the code, and has the “real world” experience. I told him to run the other way. I told him that he would be more valued and might make more money working at Home Depot in the electrical isle.

Listen up everyone. This is what you wanted when you voted for smaller fees, lower taxes and less government, and this is what you get. You can’t have it both ways. You wanted a third world country and now you've you got it. But it will be very, very hard to put it back together again like it used to be.
 

goldstar

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
TAKE A BREATH AND LOOK AT THE OTHER SIDE.

Listen up everyone. This is what you wanted when you voted for smaller fees, lower taxes and less government, and this is what you get. You can’t have it both ways. You wanted a third world country and now you've you got it. But it will be very, very hard to put it back together again like it used to be.
I feel your pain, truly I do. Many towns here are feeling the pinch with budget cuts resulting in lower staffing. I get it. However, in all fairness I submitted a permit app for a simple electric service upgrade. I don't expect a building dept. to drop everything they were doing and move my permit app to the top of the list. BUT, there's no plan review involved. A clerk or secretary at the bldg. dept. must have had hundreds of these simple permit apps pass their desk. Why can't she make a decision to say "I just saw one of these last week and the amount was $75.00." Why does she have to wait until a once-a-week EI drops by the office to put a $$ amount on the permit ? AND, if my simple service upgrade is placed at the bottom of the list, that once-a-week EI has an obligation to ONLY review 10 apps a day before he goes out to the field to inspect. Why can't they evaluate what work has to be done, categorize it into "simple" and "extensive" piles on their desk and get more done ?

To make matters worse, the EI claimed that he was not able to read my license # on my pressure seal. All my license info is there, right on the permit app. He can take a few minutes with a few clicks of a mouse and find my info on the DCA website and find out that I have a license that is up to date, I have a valid business permit and there are no complaints or other issues against me. Why should the onus be dumped on me to take my time, make a copy of my license and business peremit and fax it to his office ?

While I'm sympathetic to all you've gone through as an inspector (and no one should have to go through some of the situations you cited) you have to know, up front, that the job requires that you have some thick skin and expect confrontations with contractors, especially when you cite a picayune violation.

And, BTW talk radio and "anything government is evil" has nothing to do with local building depts. Also, we cannot discuss political topics in this forum.

Have a great day and enjoy your retirement. :cool:
 

Number_8

Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Well just to add to the experiment at this town in question... I dropped off a permit application for a generator installation on Thursday afternoon. I see they have a sign up stating they may take up to 20 business days to process a permit. I had called 5-6 times that morning to make sure I had the correct permit applications filled out for a standby generator. I was going to give up and fill out multiple permits not knowing if this town required electric, plumbing, fire, or mechanical permit applications. Seemingly each town in NJ is different and requires different permit applications. Someone finally picked up the phone and got my answer. I filled out the permit applications and got to the municipal building just after lunch Thursday. The inspector only works Tuesday and Thursday I believe so we'll see how my '20 days' goes.

BTW - I was aware of the original posters problem. I belong to the EC association he is in and helps run. He's always bringing info to the group from Mike Holt and other areas to help keep us informed. His fight is for the good of everyone.

I'm a long time reader of posts and this might be my first reply/post. I've learned a lot from the knowledge and experience these forums provide. Even if they just prove I was wrong!
 

ggunn

PE (Electrical), NABCEP certified
Location
Austin, TX, USA
Occupation
Electrical Engineer - Photovoltaic Systems
Listen up everyone. This is what you wanted when you voted for smaller fees, lower taxes and less government, and this is what you get. You can’t have it both ways. You wanted a third world country and now you've you got it. But it will be very, very hard to put it back together again like it used to be.
Any response I have would likely be classed as political, so suffice to say that I emphatically agree with you.
 

Number_8

Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Following up... I had submitted permit applications for a generator job in the afternoon of 12/2 and received a call on 12/21 (13 business days) letting me know my permits were ready. That's perfectly acceptable given they weren't a simple service upgrade.

As a side note I did speak to the office manager of another town and asked about permits not needing plan review and any fast-tracking. They explained they're looking into a simple system for service upgrades, water heater and HVAC replacements being approved at the time of application since no plan review is needed. I hope this is an idea many towns are looking to do!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top