This is why electronic meter are so dangerous

Status
Not open for further replies.
schlum said:
Earthquake in our electric utility Hydro-Qu?bec. The president and CEO resign, the no 2 also resign and the director of the smartmeter project also resign. Not surprise at all, the smartmeter project was a complete fail and the meter itself is garbage
Click to expand...

3 top executives resign over smartmeters? I realize installing all those meters is not pocket change, but probably isn't that much compared to the rest of the system. I would think it would also have to involve more then just some physical failures, more like inaccuracies in what is metered to be that big of a problem - but that is just my thoughts. We have had newer meters installed in most places around here in recent years, AFAIK all new meters are remote read now, but have not heard a single story where one caused a structure fire. Before they were remote read, many were being replaced with electronic meters - not necessarily that the entire system was being replaced, they just were not putting mechanical meters back in service when they needed changed or a new service was installed. I am not aware of any meters being used that are able to disconnect service, that is still done by having a service tech come out and "tab" the meter on smaller self contained metering, or do whatever is necessary to disconnect power to customer for CT meter types (usually just pull primary side fuses)
 
I did a quick search and found that indeed, the CEO, the executive vice president and the project director that was responsible for the smart meter program of Hydro-Quebec all quit unexpectedly last week.

http://montrealgazette.com/business...2-executive-marie-josee-nadeau-calls-it-quits

http://www.cjad.com/cjad-news/2015/02/03/two-hydro-quebec-executives-resign-suddenly-report

Also, last week thousands of Hydro-Quebec customers were without power, including some in Laval, the location of the OP.

http://www.cjad.com/cjad-news/2015/01/05/update-2500-montrealers-still-in-the-dark

So, something is going on at Hydro-Quebec. Something big enough to make the top management crew jump ship. I kind of doubt that smart meters could cause that much turmoil.
 
Well, I could be wrong. It seems that the resignation of the top level executives may indeed be related to smart meters.
MONTREAL ? Two Hydro-Quebec executives in charge of the contentious smart-meter program quietly resigned last week along with CEO Thierry Vandal, QMI Agency has learned.

The $1-billion smart-meter file has sparked boycotts and petitions over the safety of the devices and Hydro-Quebec's pushy installation measures.
Vandal, the president and CEO, quit after 10 years on the job. His resignation takes effect May 1.
Vandal's second-in-command, Marie-Josee Nadeau, quit on Friday along with Georges Abiad, who was overseeing installation of more than 3.8 million electronic meters.
Nadeau, as secretary of the board, was the only person aside from the president who had access to all Hydro-Quebec files. She had held her post for 22 years.
In an e-mail to QMI, Nadeau said her resignation "is totally independent of Thierry Vandal's and it would be wrong to make any connection."
Hydro-Quebec provided no explanation for the departure of Abiad, the smart-meter boss.
"Mr. Abiad left the corporation last week to pursue other challenges," the utility told QMI in a statement.
An industry insider said the sudden loss of the three top managers was a shock.
"It's as if Hydro-Quebec has been decapitated," he said.
The utility is Canada's largest in terms of revenues and capacity.
Aside from its Quebec monopoly, the utility powers up parts of Ontario, New Brunswick, Labrador and New England.
Hydro-Quebec has faced enormous criticism over its plan to replace analog meters with digital units.
Clients have reported major hikes on their hydro bills and many have told QMI they have had difficulty getting answers from Hydro-Quebec.
Some say they've been put on hold for long periods and were even harassed by call-centre agents who insisted they had no choice but to have the meters installed. The smart meters are, in fact, optional.
QMI reported in December that one Hydro worker faces disciplinary measures for breaking into a home north of Montreal to install a meter.
Some clients, and even some entire towns, are refusing to let Hydro-Quebec install the smart meters on their property.
Click to expand...

http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/politics/archives/2015/02/20150203-102707.html
 
kwired said:
I am not aware of any meters being used that are able to disconnect service, that is still done by having a service tech come out and "tab" the meter on smaller self contained metering, or do whatever is necessary to disconnect power to customer for CT meter types (usually just pull primary side fuses)
Click to expand...

Not any more in quebec, the smartmeter is bought with the connect/disconnect switch

Model Landis and Gyr Focus AXR-SD SD is for the disconnect service

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8vOmL44C7sQTXFEdEk5Z0FrMDQ&authuser=0

And believe me they used it , they disconnected near 70,000 meters last year for no-payment. Half the disconnect were by the switch
 
schlum said:
Not any more in quebec, the smartmeter is bought with the connect/disconnect switch

Model Landis and Gyr Focus AXR-SD SD is for the disconnect service

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8vOmL44C7sQTXFEdEk5Z0FrMDQ&authuser=0

And believe me they used it , they disconnected near 70,000 meters last year for no-payment. Half the disconnect were by the switch
Click to expand...
Out here in California PG&E use the disconnect switches a lot for late payments. But after you pat by phone it still takes a few hours for the work order to get to a technician who tells the computer to signal the switch back on.
:(
 
GoldDigger said:
Out here in California PG&E use the disconnect switches a lot for late payments. But after you pat by phone it still takes a few hours for the work order to get to a technician who tells the computer to signal the switch back on.
:(
Click to expand...

In a related story...

I came home from vacation once to find the gas cut off for non-payment. My wife had paid the bill and the gas company was in error. After the supervisor I got hold of (finally) admitted that it was totally their fault he told me that it would be three to five days before they could get someone out to remove their lockout on the meter. We have gas water heating and a gas stove, and we had been traveling all day with a mountain of dirty laundry.

I told him I had a dremel tool that could get that lock off no problem. He told me that that was illegal. I told him to go ahead and call the cops, but I'd have it off before they could get here. He yelled. I hung up.

The cops never showed. I had a hot shower that night and clean clothes the next day.
 
Local news ..house burned up last night ,smartmeters thought to be the cause, poco say nobody knows that for sure..
In Whitney Tx a small place,,smartmeters can be turned off or on remotely.
 
ggunn said:
In a related story...

I came home from vacation once to find the gas cut off for non-payment. My wife had paid the bill and the gas company was in error. After the supervisor I got hold of (finally) admitted that it was totally their fault he told me that it would be three to five days before they could get someone out to remove their lockout on the meter. We have gas water heating and a gas stove, and we had been traveling all day with a mountain of dirty laundry.

I told him I had a dremel tool that could get that lock off no problem. He told me that that was illegal. I told him to go ahead and call the cops, but I'd have it off before they could get here. He yelled. I hung up.

The cops never showed. I had a hot shower that night and clean clothes the next day.
Click to expand...
I'm on your side on this one. Three to five days when you did nothing wrong is absurd. Then they possibly even try to add disconnect/reconnect fees on top of everything :(

Did you ask if it would also take three to five days to disconnect if your house were on fire?

I would possibly sent a message both to this supervisor and to billing dept explaining your situation one more time and then notifying them if your service was not back on in at least 24 hours the lock was coming off - and that even though the lock removal may be illegal, so is selling a service and not providing it.
 
kwired said:
I'm on your side on this one. Three to five days when you did nothing wrong is absurd. Then they possibly even try to add disconnect/reconnect fees on top of everything :(

Did you ask if it would also take three to five days to disconnect if your house were on fire?

I would possibly sent a message both to this supervisor and to billing dept explaining your situation one more time and then notifying them if your service was not back on in at least 24 hours the lock was coming off - and that even though the lock removal may be illegal, so is selling a service and not providing it.
Click to expand...

When the cops didn't show I decided to let sleeping dogs lie. Even 24 hours would have been an undeserved hardship for us; we were coming back from the Caribbean with a ton of dirty laundry; I was in bad need of a shower and a washing machine. When I called them it was around 3PM; they would have had plenty of time to divert a truck to come take the lock off and relight the pilot on my water heater, especially seeing as they were totally at fault and finally admitted it. The guy was just being obstinate even though I remained calm and courteous up until the end when I hung up on him mid tirade.

No harm no foul.
 
K8MHZ said:
Firefighters and other first responders are taught how to shut the gas valve off.
Click to expand...

Good point that generally applies to most dwelling and small commercial or industrial applications.

They however are not trained to shut gas off if it is leaking ahead of the shut off for some reason - good example I have seen before is automobile crashes into house - takes out gas meter in the process and shut off is usually at the meter.

They are not about to turn off medium to high voltage sources if necessary either - they call the POCO and wait - and only in some very rare instances do they attempt to directly intervene if it may save someone's life.
 
mtnelectrical said:
I've been following this thread and looking into this smart meter thing, and found some disturbing information about radiation exposure.There are some videos were people refuse to have this smart meters installed on their houses. Does anyone have some input on this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q12IbEtTrwk
Click to expand...

mtnelectrical said:
And this was on the news in Michigan. hmm very interesting.
http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/25265744/foxe-report-smart-meter-concerns
Click to expand...

I expect those same people to refuse to use cell phones, cordless phones connected to their land line, television remote controls, WIFI for their computer and other networked items, commercial broadcast radio/television, even automobiles are getting to where there are RF signals used to control or monitor something more and more. I bet most of those people use a lot of the items mentioned and very few have complaints about other items using a RF signal. Those same people maybe better stop using electric energy altogether as there are other items that emit RF that are not using that RF as some intentional component.

Someone that is really sensitive to RF or other electromagnetic spectrum waves, probably would still have been sick a couple hundred years ago when we didn't have all this technology yet because the sun emits a good share of these energy waves as well - but of course we destroyed some of the natural protection by depleting the ozone layer....there is no end of debate here.

Invasion of privacy? The only data that is collected is your energy load patterns, and total energy consumed (which the total energy consumed was already being recorded with the old technology meters, and though not common on residences they did record peak demand, power factor information and stuff like that before for certain customers. Otherwise it has no real way of telling exactly what the load is, though some assumptions can possibly be made from some load patterns.
 
150205-0817 EST

mtnelectrical:

I have only randomly looked at this thread, but some general comments.

The Fox news story was more about sensationalism, than about real well researched reporting. At the time of the story there was a substantial outcry by a small group of people that were opposed to smart meters that received a lot of press time.

Are or were there problems with smart meter installations? Yes, but I believe very few. DTE has about 2,000,000 customers. Probably most installations have been completed by now. When our city, Ann Arber, MI, had our meters installed about one and a half years ago there were very few problems. I believe one of my neighbors had some problem because the day after their meter was installed a DTE truck was at their home, and there was one house on the west side of town where a fire occurred in the meter and meter base. This was reported on TV and in the papers. Badly reported. No closeup photos that would have provided an indication of where the fire started, and there was no followup reporting on exactly where in the combination of the meter socket and meter the hot spot originated.

Our meters do have an internal contactor. Indirectly I have been told it is visually a rather wimpy contactor. But, if you look at the meter specifications and the durability tests that the meter has to pass, then it is probably capable.

I have no problems with my smart meter.

Never use testimonials, or descriptions by the ordinary ignorant general public to make decisions on important subjects. But also don't depend upon experts for correct information. You need to ask questions, do your own research, and analysis, and then draw conclusions.

The whole RF subject is something I don't want discuss at this point. I have been subjected to far higher power density levels than possibly any of the so called electrosensitive people that the news media reports on, and I don't believe the radiation has caused me a problem. On the other hand I do believe that biological material can detect very small power density levels, and I have been involved in such experiments.

.
 
gar said:
150205-0817 EST
The Fox news story was more about sensationalism, than about real well researched reporting.
Click to expand...

Fry to Leela (Futurama): Wow. You've just gone from crazy like a fox to crazy like Fox News. :D
 
Thank guys for your responses. I always respect everybody's point of view. I'm always in favor of facts and pro technology, as far it is proven to be harmless (at least close to be 100%) and there always going to be people that complaints about changes, specially when they consider they have been violating their right to choose. I do understand their position as well. Concerning to the exposure of the RF signals, at least in USA, there have been millions of people exposed to this signals for 30 years or so already,right? Well let's see what happens in the next 2 decades to come to final conclusions. It is kind of funny that the National Cancer Institute says there is no conclusive proof so far that the use of cellular increases the probability to get any kind of cancer, but there are some recommendations to avoid the possibilities to be affected and one of them it is the use of an ear piece (bluetooth) and Im getting one very soon. :) . I hope it is not too late.
 
mtnelectrical said:
Thank guys for your responses. I always respect everybody's point of view. I'm always in favor of facts and pro technology, as far it is proven to be harmless (at least close to be 100%) and there always going to be people that complaints about changes, specially when they consider they have been violating their right to choose. I do understand their position as well. Concerning to the exposure of the RF signals, at least in USA, there have been millions of people exposed to this signals for 30 years or so already,right? Well let's see what happens in the next 2 decades to come to final conclusions. It is kind of funny that the National Cancer Institute says there is no conclusive proof so far that the use of cellular increases the probability to get any kind of cancer, but there are some recommendations to avoid the possibilities to be affected and one of them it is the use of an ear piece (bluetooth) and Im getting one very soon. :) . I hope it is not too late.
Click to expand...
Sorry but Bluetooth uses an RF signal also - though it is at a lower power level then the phone primary transmitter.
 
gar said:
Our meters do have an internal contactor. Indirectly I have been told it is visually a rather wimpy contactor. But, if you look at the meter specifications and the durability tests that the meter has to pass, then it is probably capable.
Click to expand...
Here in BC we've got Itron OpenWay smart meters. The standard 1PH 200A meters have the disconnect option (Itron C2S0D) I believe that the contactor operation is timed to occur at zero-crossing of the AC waveform. The contactor itself can be seen here:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top