too big of a job

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southernboys

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Hey guys Im a 2 man shop that specializes in resi and service calls. I had a gc friend of mine call me and ask to take a look at doing a 3 story church for him. I told him over the phone that I was a small company. He said he didnt care was interested in me doing the job for him. Ive got some guys who I might be able to bring on in the evening. I also have another ec friend who is willing to help me with manpower and bidding. I would actually come under him since he has the more established company. My questions are this what percentage of the job should I ask him for? Would you consider taking on a job that you are too small for? Is 20 an hour a fair asking price for for myself? How much would you charge the other ec? Thanks in advance.
 
Re: too big of a job

Southernboys let me give you my take. When I went into buisiness back in 1984 I started by doing service calls and bedroom additions for about 1 year. I just happened to meet a gc one day at a bar while waiting for my girlfriend of the time to get off work. We talked for a while and he asks if I want to bid a project. I said sure so he says come back next day and pick up plans. It was for 85 townhouses. I bid, got the job and started gaining wealth for the first time in my life. I have also done a 12.5 million dollar system integration project as the prime contractor. Nowadays I am back to service calls and bedroom additions by my choice. If you are young and have big kahones, not much to risk in the way of assets then why not? Just make sure you bid correctly.
 
Re: too big of a job

Originally posted by southernboys:
Is 20 an hour a fair asking price for for myself?
Click to expand...
If you mean dollars sure that's enough if you like working for nothing.
I think you know in your head this job is not for you. Go with your gut.
 
Re: too big of a job

SB,

I'm really confused. I thought I remember reading some posts from you wondering how to get more money because your boss promoted you to job super w/out the extra pay.

Then I read some posts where you said you were an electrical contractor with licenses and insurance.

Your profile says you're a commercial electrician, yet you appear to be more involved in residential.

Are there two similar names on this board?

Now to your question. If you have the time to put two people on this project full time, I would not think it is too large (unless you can only work a couple of hours a day on it). (It just dawned on me, are you employed and run a contracting business part-time?)

$20/hour is way too low (even for the South).

Rule of thumb is you need to charge at least twice what you pay an employee to cover the taxes and insurances and leave something for overhead. If you charge $20/hour, that means you are accepting $10/hour as pay. If you are willing to accept $10/hour, I've got some work for you, hell, I'll even give you the $20/hour if you provide workers comp certificate and accept a 1099, and you won't have time to work part-time.

Don't sell yourself short.
 
Re: too big of a job

two men can probibly do a church working full time--but whats gonna happen to your service work during this period of time. how far south are you--- i'm only 150 miles to key west (the southernmost point of the united states) and labor bids are in the neighborhood of 50 to 60 bucks an hour! soooooo i'm figuring at $20.00 an hour you are located somewhere around costa rica?
 
Re: too big of a job

Why did you even go into business for yourself if you are not willing to grow when the right job comes along? Hire the amount of men you think you will need to do the job. To involve your friend is a mistake, why let him come in and make all the money? If you are willing to work for him for $20.00 an hour then you might as well close up shop and go work for an electrical contractor for that same amount and get your medical ins., 401K, 2 weeks paid vacation, Christmas bonuses, etc.
 
Re: too big of a job

Stiff you nailed it on the head. I am currently a fulltime employee for a contractor. In my spare time I do these service calls. I am licensed through the state of Al and carry the minimal amount of insurance. I have been trying to get at least one fulltime contractor. So thai I can breakout on my own. Ive been thinking residential side. This is because I can afford to get out on my own. Having this offer on my table is very tempting. However I can not afford to float the mony to pay myself and other men. Therefore I plan to allow my friend to come on board. As he is an allready established contractor. He has the ability to float me the mony and the credit at supply house to get material. In addition he has more bidding experience than I do. Thus it makes sense to use this job to teach me a lot about bidding. As far as the 20 an hour I see your point and will ask him for more. However I also plan on hotting him up for a percentage of his net from this job. Im thinking 20% is that a fair amount to both partys? Thanks for your replys
 
Re: too big of a job

Originally posted by GG:
Why did you even go into business for yourself if you are not willing to grow when the right job comes along?
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Not to threadjack but this is a silly statement.

[ July 21, 2005, 06:55 PM: Message edited by: electricmanscott ]
 
Re: too big of a job

SB,

What if you got a price from your friend to do the job, and then you put 5%-10% on it and manage the project? No arguments about how much the job cost to work out.

Maybe you could get a price from him to do the rough in only, under your supervision, and you trim it out. Something along those lines with defined scopes of work would keep it clean.

Trying to bring him a job and let you work then splitting the profits up can get tricky, and it can also strain the relationship.
 
Re: too big of a job

You may think my statement was silly, but it was made from the fact that I dont know of 1 electrical contractor that is still in business that tried to stay small (i.e. a 2 man shop, you and a helper.) Its not going to happen long term. Yeah you may have a couple good years but the odds are against you. Sure you can start out small, but there comes a time when you have to expand. My statement was a reality of the business world. I have been in business long enough and worked for enough EC's to know who lasts and who doesnt and the little 2 man shops dont have what it takes to last long term.

[ July 22, 2005, 12:12 AM: Message edited by: GG ]
 
Re: too big of a job

gg,
i was in business for 25 years---had up to 23 men working for me at one time---then in 1993 i saw the light and cut back to a two man operation providing speciallized services to large office buildings----no work for general contractors!!!!
the last twelve years were great--no worries about money and all the work we wanted--we were happy and so were our customers! what else can you ask for?
 
Re: too big of a job

I agree with Macmikeman & Hardworkingstiff, you don't need a big shop to make a living or stay in business. The statistics for our state show that 90% of the EC's here are a 5 man shop or less. I think the normal is 1 electrician with 1 or 2 helpers and his wife doing the books ( at night I guess ). I have seen companies go bust when they tried to grow based on one job. It's better to be under staffed than over staffed, that's why so many EC's use Temps. Having said that, I think that southernboys should raise his rates and do the church as a T&M project. Churches are not places to give a flat bid on because too many people will have a say in the project. He should quit his job and start getting a weekly check from the church after putting in some long hours. If a contractor can't make it in Florida right now with all the work, he never will. As far a materials, he should get a check up front. It's just my opinion that if your young and single now's the time to take chances and not latter with a wife and kids. Too much stress.
 
Re: too big of a job

The larger EC's here seem to squeeze out the small guys. With there $40,000.00 + yellow page adds, radio dispatched trucks, $30,000.00 + bucket trucks, 24hr answering service, and on call electricians its hard to keep up with them. Im losing customers to them when I tell someone on the phone I cant get to them right that second. I worked for a co. in Houston who had work booked 2 weeks in advance.I dont see how they did that. If I dont tell the customer I can be there that day or the next they call someone else. Im glad that you guys are telling me that the smaller shops can survive. Maybe I need to re-think my earlier statements.
 
Re: too big of a job

GG, everyone loses calls to the guys with the expensive adds & 24 hr. service. I asked a friend of mine that tried to grow to fast about this. He advised me to keep track of those that were just starting out with a huge overhead, see how many were still around in a couple of years. For the last 8 years I have been saving the yellow pages and can see that big adds don't necessarily mean success. If you have the business, growth is good. But if you want to compete with the well established shops it is a hard job because they already have a well established customer base and they can afford the overhead.
 
Re: too big of a job

I was under the impression you had to grow in order to last as an EC. Reading some of these responses about guys doing a 1 man shop for 10+ years is encouraging as I dont want to grow to more than a 2-4 man shop.
 
Re: too big of a job

GG

I have been in the electrical contracting business for 30 years and our shop has 3 to 5 employees and it's been very very??good to me.
Get big you ask? Seen to many of the big boys fall flat out when they try to keep there men working and take jobs for cost hoping to make it on extras. They have large overhead and profits get chewed up fast. My son is in the business now with me and ask the same question on why I never went big. I tell him that I was always happy with a little bit of the pie. When you go for the whole pie it might get hard to chew.
Look I have enough problems with 3 to 5 guys working. Don't want to think of having 20 guy's.
I still have some hair left and want to keep what I have.
There is nothing wrong with wanting to be big. But don't get big and make no money.
I know of a few big contractors that tell me how many millions in business they do but when I ask how much was in his pocket it was the same as I make and I have 1/3 of the work load he has and less stress.
 
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