too big of a job

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Re: too big of a job

Originally posted by highkvoltage:
Really what it comes down to is your not a contractor. I am not insulting you just stating a fact. You really have no business acting as one unless you are willing to stick your neck out there and take the jump. Guys working out of there basement are killing legitiment EC's and are killing the market. You guys have no overhead so you quote a low bid and drive down the market.
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So, since I work out of my basement/garage and therefore don't have a lot of extra overhead, I'm not a legitimate contractor? How much overhead does someone have to have before he's considered legitimate? Should I buy a bucket truck? Buy a building for an office/warehouse? Hire a crew?

I have a state Class A Electrical Contractor license, the exact same kind as the one held by the largest contractor in the state. Just because I'm a one man shop working out of my house and have lower overhead doesn't make me any less legitimate than the big boys. The only difference is that they can take on big projects, while I pretty much have to stick to smaller jobs. Since I advertise in places they don't, I assume they aren't upset with me for taking business away from them.

Also, I'm not undercutting my employer by moonlighting. This EC business is the only job and source of income I have. I think that qualifies as sticking my neck out there and taking the jump, my lack of a bucket truck notwithstanding. :D
 
Re: too big of a job

If you work for someone else 40 hours a week for wages and just do small jobs on the side on nights and weekends, then you might be considered a "moonlighter" and not a legitimate "Electrical Contractor".

But anyone that works for themselves, running their own electrical contracting business, as their only source of income, they are a legitimate "Electrical Contractor".

The only meaningful differences between a one-man-shop and a $20,000,000 per year large EC are the matter of scale and complexity.

The $20M/yr large EC could make the same argument that a "small" EC that does just $1M/yr and only has 20 electricians is killing the business by his low overhead and low prices.

No matter what size contractor you are, there are always jobs that meet your "sweet spot" of maximum business efficiency ... and there will always be jobs that are too large for you to perform on your own (be it a one-man shop or an EC with 500 electricians). (Like John Wayne said... "A man's got to know his limitations".)

If you get bigger, than your "sweet spot" moves to include jobs that are too small for you to perform with efficiency and in a cost-effective manner. That means that you will get beat by smaller ECs that can do those smaller jobs more efficiently. No matter what size you are, there is a range of job size and type that is your "sweet spot". If you go outside of yours, then you'll get beat by another EC when you try to compete in his "sweet spot". Just choose where you want your sweet spot to be, and try to concentrate on jobs that meet those conditions.

I've never seen any EC that could be really good at doing every type of work, every type of job and every size job, large or small.

Whether an individual EC chooses to remain a 1-man shop or to become a large EC is a personal choice, based on many factors. That doesn't make a small 1-man EC any less legitimate. 1-man shops and large shops both take risks -- they're just different risks. They both stick their neck out -- just in different ways. Any EC (large or small) that bites off a job that is too large for him risks going broke.

Now if that 1-man EC charges less than he could charge, just because he has a lower overhead... well, that just makes him a dummy (and a poor businessman), because he could be making a much higher profit -- that 's one of the main advantages of having and keeping a low overhead -- it enables you to make a higher profit if you're smart enough to "take advantage of you advantage".

The real truth is that there are a lot more small ECs than large ECs that are poor businessmen. Most of the poor businessmen are weeded out in the process of their attempting to become large ECs.

What you should really be concerned about is becoming a good businessman in addition to being a good electrician. That's what will keep you from going broke.

[ August 15, 2005, 02:30 PM: Message edited by: tx2step ]
 
Re: too big of a job

Coulda been Clint Eastwood, now that I think about it? :D :D :D

Edited to add: Either one of them woulda made good electricians! :D

[ August 15, 2005, 07:04 PM: Message edited by: tx2step ]
 
Re: too big of a job

"Now if that 1-man EC charges less than he could charge, just because he has a lower overhead... well, that just makes him a dummy (and a poor businessman), because he could be making a much higher profit -- that 's one of the main advantages of having and keeping a low overhead -- that 's one of the main advantages of having and keeping a low overhead -- it enables you to make a higher profit if you're smart enough to "take advantage of you advantage".
 
Re: too big of a job

I am not implying that you have to have a $100,000 building, a fleet of truck, 20 employees, ect. I am saying that you should be self employeed( or have a partner but your income is solely based on your business) , obtained the proper insurances, provide worker comp.,pull the proper permits,continue my education to maintain my licenses and pay taxes as required by law. I run a one man shop and hire as I need from a union hall. I do the outlet replacements to jobs over $200,000. There are alot a risk being in business and I made the choice and am happy I did. But I also put alot of capital and time to try this venture. Bitter not really our state is making the changes that will punish those closet contractors. As of now if you are caught wiring a commerical building and are not a licensed contractor the penalties are harsh and I will call the proper authorities if you are not an licensed EC. I just want a fair playing field or as close as you can get.
 
Re: too big of a job

Originally posted by highkvoltage:
I am not implying that you have to have a $100,000 building, a fleet of truck, 20 employees, ect.
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K, so I have an office in my home, 3 trucks, and 3 full time employees besides myself, so I'm an electrical contractor, right? Cause if I'm not I'll drop the Inc. off my name till I am.
 
Re: too big of a job

Bust your *** all day and then come home and read posts from clueless yahoos. :roll: The more I read what higkvoltage says the more I realize why there are so many miserable people in this field. Fortunately I am not one of them. Nor are most of the contractors here. Oops, I mean wannabe contractors. :roll:

[ August 16, 2005, 09:17 PM: Message edited by: electricmanscott ]
 
Re: too big of a job

electricmanscott. Your post speaks for itself. I feel sorry for you. Don't read what I post. I really don't believe you understand the intend anyways. Have one of your employees read them and hopefully they will be able to explain them to you.

[ August 16, 2005, 09:43 PM: Message edited by: highkvoltage ]
 
Re: too big of a job

Originally posted by highkvoltage:
electricmanscott. Your post speaks for itself. I feel sorry for you. Don't read what I post. I really don't believe you understand the intend anyways. Have one of your employees read them and hopefully they will be able to explain them to you.
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Perhaps you wouldn't be catching such flack had you not presented yourself as a complete jerk. (I presume you take a different attitude with your customers... if not those 200K jobs are few and far between.) It was you that wrongfully presumed that the one man shops represented here are non licensed hacks and moonlighters. You took a blind shot and didn't even knick the barn with that one.
You also made a bold statement that any one man shop or, God forbid, part time operation, is "not a contractor." Yet, how many ECs, regardless of current size, started out as a one man show? I suppose I wasn't a real contractor when I started out. I was licensed, bonded, insured and incorporated. But, I worked out of my home and when I started out I was still employed by someone else. Sure he knew I was doing it, even encouraged me. Sure, I never poached a single customer and never bid a project he was looking at. But, I guess I wasn't legitimate because I didn't put my families welfare in enough jeopardy for your liking.
 
Re: too big of a job

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[ August 16, 2005, 10:23 PM: Message edited by: GG ]
 
Re: too big of a job

Originally posted by electricmanscott:
Bust your *** all day and then come home and read posts from clueless yahoos. :D

I'm also not one of the miserable people in this field. Sure, some days are better than others, but I really enjoy what I do. I've had several other jobs in a variety of fields before I embarked on my current journey, and with that frame of reference, I can say being an EC really suits me much more than the other things I did for a living previously.

Just today, I did a panel swap for a guy (fuses to breakers), and you should have seen how happy he was when I got him all set up. He asked me for a bunch of business cards because he planned on spreading the word about me. How many people out there can credibly claim they have a job where they regularly get to make people happy?
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Re: too big of a job

Hi GG....I also asked to "partner-up" with a electrician buddy of mine...his response was "Partners are for dancing".
Since he has asked me to help him out on occasions as he is a "one-man shop" I now realize he did me a favor by saying "Partners are for dancing". I would be doing all the work and he would be out "looking at a jobs". As to the original question about the church job. one of the hardest things to do is to "nail down a job". If the church wants YOU do do?the job then you have 1/2 the battle won already. Granted, you will need help. If you can not manage to get the help, then by asking your buddy EC to come in on the job is fine, but you are the boss on this job. Be friendly, you can team up with your buddy. have him help you with bidding and get a percentage of the entire job on the backside for yourself. You will need a good relationship with this buddy and an open account with the church. It is going to be hard to bid the job because as one fellow mentioned, with churches to many people have too much to say so there will be changes and add-ons etc. If this EC is a true buddy of yours, you can make this job work for you. If you do this job, LEARN! Learning is sometimes a rough road, but there is no substitute for experience! Good Luck
 
Re: too big of a job

Originally posted by bradleyelectric:
Originally posted by jeff43222:
How many people out there can credibly claim they have a job where they regularly get to make people happy?
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Are you suggesting I go back to delivering pizzas?
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Your electrical work doesn't make people happy? I've actually been hugged a couple of times. Ever get hugged on a pizza run?
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Re: too big of a job

I have left any number of very happy customers in my wake.

People hire other people to do thigns for them they are unable to do for themselves. They are often quite happy with the results. It is why they come back for more later on.
 
Re: too big of a job

To give everyone an update on this job. I realized as soon as I lokkes at this job it was out of my leauge. My Ec buddy never called the church so I have nothing to do with him. I also lost a partner and a good friend because he wanted us to do the job. Told him no way. Well the church gave the job to another ec who is 40yrs in the trade but a one man shop. They then called me up to help him so ive been doing that part time. Im working on a condo with 20 days left and then I will probaly go fulltime under this other electrician. The job will be a great learning experience for me and I will become a more rounded electrician thanks to this job.
 
Re: too big of a job

Originally posted by southernboys:
I also lost a partner and a good friend because he wanted us to do the job. Told him no way.
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If you lost a good friend due to not becoming a partner in business, you didn't have a good friend. I don't think you had a partner in the first place, and that may have been a blessing. A friend went in partnership with a guy in a paving business. they are both good guys, but my friend sometimes wishes he had rethought that as the guy that was doing the paving does not have good business sense
 
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