too big of a job

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Re: too big of a job

Well thanks for all the advice. I now see that staying small may have its benefits. Sorry if I stepped on any toes with my earlier comments. I know you all work hard regardless of the size of your shop. Guess size doesnt matter. :D

[ July 22, 2005, 04:39 PM: Message edited by: GG ]
 
Re: too big of a job

Originally posted by GG:
I was under the impression you had to grow in order to last as an EC.
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Growing can mean many different things...
- if you can create a solid customer base with many satisfied and repeat customers - you have grown.
- if you spend all week giving estimates that never materialize, you have NOT grown.

- if you can keep 25 guys busy for 40 hrs/week...you have grown
- if you only need those 25 guys for ONE week, you have not grown

..and so on.
To me "growing" means keeping yourself employed.

As pointed out, sometimes "growing" can become an unmanageable jungle.
 
Re: too big of a job

So, how do you solo guys do old work without help?

I could spend hours trying to fish some situations solo, where it could take 5 minutes with help, without going up and down stairs, into attics, etc.

I'm curious because I'd like to be a solo guy some day. :)
 
Re: too big of a job

George, have you ever seen those little helper monkeys that are trained to serve those that are invalid. Well, that's the second choice, normally you hire some temp. help ( staffing agency or some useless relative that's been sponging off you ). If there is plenty of work you can hire people because they wont draw unemployment ( they have to go back to work, Make sure you don't get lazy types).
 
Re: too big of a job

My helper monkey can even install CATV cable as shown here.
monkey3.jpg
 
Re: too big of a job

So, how do you solo guys do old work without help?
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George, its a good question. In Hawaii most older homes are , "get ready" 5/8" single wall redwood tongue and groove. Fishing is minimal. Where it is double wall construction I am usually replacing knob and tube so using the old wire as a pull string is generally very easy. Rewiring alum. houses is another thing entirely. On those there is usually going to have to be a handyman come behind me for sheetrock repairs. Over the years I have learned a boatload of tricks/tools for one man fishing and wire pulling. Up until a few years ago batt insulation was really rare to find in the walls or attic's here because it just didn't get hot enough or cold enough to warrent its expense. Now all new construction requires r13 compliance in the attics. I don't think its hit 90 deg yet this summer. 60 deg is a really cold day unless you live outer Island and are up on a mountain .
 
Re: too big of a job

GG,

Over 25 years, Three man shop, with continued profits, all the EC's that tried to go big are not around anymore.
 
Re: too big of a job

Well I had a chance to expand when a friend called me and wanted to partner up. Thank God I said no. I had a gut feeling that with him I would be out of business in a year. Im staying small and NO partners. :)
 
Re: too big of a job

I've been a one man shop for 11 years. I've wanted to get bigger but have seen the nightmare happen to a lot of others. Too much work too fast, and nothing gets finsihed. Bad Karma. The yellow pages won't get you anything that the local paper cant get you, and I have learned to say "no because it wont make me happy" thanks to Mike Holt. I like that marketing strategy. As for taking on a 3 story church part time? Give me a break. Just sell your stuff now and give it to your "friend" the GC. He is going to end up with it anyway by the time the job is over. He is not your "friend" if he is going to hand you a headache like that and sell you on it being "part time". You will be doing work at midnight and he will be sound asleep waiting on his draw for your hard work. Don't do it.
 
Re: too big of a job

I agree with Gunning. This GC probably isn't your friend - he appears to be setting you up for failure. When you fall behind, he will start holding your payments until you "catch up". Then you can't work because you have no money coming in. If you do manage to catch up, he may withhold damages for your delaying the project. For sure, he will hold a chunk of your money for "insurance" that you'll finish the job without delay, or he'll use that money to hire another EC to complete your work. This can bankrupt you. It happens all of the time -- I've seen it often. I expect that he just sees you as gullible.

Don't take on a single project that can bankrupt you if it goes sour. Don't try to grow too fast. How much capitol do you have set aside to operate on (and risk)?

Read the entire thread at:

http://www.mikeholt.com/codeforum/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=4;t=000818
 
Re: too big of a job

Originally posted by GG:
You may think my statement was silly, but it was made from the fact that I dont know of 1 electrical contractor that is still in business that tried to stay small (i.e. a 2 man shop, you and a helper.) Its not going to happen long term. Yeah you may have a couple good years but the odds are against you. Sure you can start out small, but there comes a time when you have to expand. My statement was a reality of the business world. I have been in business long enough and worked for enough EC's to know who lasts and who doesnt and the little 2 man shops dont have what it takes to last long term.
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You're telling the truth, I since some naivtivity in southernboy, and believe him to be one that missed the boat.
 
Re: too big of a job

Being a one-man shop vs being a big operation just means you have to market yourself differently. You certainly aren't going to win by trying to compete against their strengths.

I can't afford the big dollars required for yellow pages display ads, so I advertise in the neighborhood newspapers that the big boys ignore. I reach a segment of the market they don't -- people who get overwhelmed by all the yellow pages ads and would prefer to hire someone local. I get a steady stream of business from these newspaper ads.

My neighbor had some work done on her house a few years ago, and the EC that did the work had the biggest ad in the yellow pages. They closed up shop shortly after they did her job. It was a big out-of-state company that decided they couldn't make enough money in this market. Bigger apparently isn't better.

And the other day, I was at the supply house, and the counter guy asked if I was keeping busy. I said I had more than enough work right now, and he replied that a lot of guys are out of work. I wonder if they worked for bigger ECs.
 
Re: too big of a job

Really what it comes down to is your not a contractor. I am not insulting you just stating a fact. You really have no business acting as one unless you are willing to stick your neck out there and take the jump. Guys working out of there basement are killing legitiment EC's and are killing the market. You guys have no overhead so you quote a low bid and drive down the market. Personally your freind should tell you to take a jump contact the GC and take the job. Don't get me wrong I hope you decide to become an EC but until then don't act as one. Here is something else you need to think about. I read alot a guys posting how profits are down and wages/jobs are also going down. The reason for this is there are to many moonlighters undercutting their own employer, then woundering why they are not working or their employers can't afford pay raises or medical insurance . Remember what goes around comes around. Once you are up and running and your employees start moonlighting taking your customers and are bidding jobs you may be looking at then you will truely understand.

[ August 13, 2005, 04:17 PM: Message edited by: highkvoltage ]
 
Re: too big of a job

Originally posted by highkvoltage:
Really what it comes down to is your not a contractor. I am not insulting you just stating a fact. You really have no business acting as one unless you are willing to stick your neck out there and take the jump.
Click to expand...
At what point will I be an electrical contractor?
 
Re: too big of a job

Bradleyelectric, such questions were best answered by Rudyard Kipling.
If......
If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
Or being lied about , don't deal in lies,
Or being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look to good , nor talk to wise:

If you can dream-and not make dreams your master;
If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two imposters just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken
And stoop and build'em up with worn-out tools:

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose , and start again at your beginnings
and never breathe a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
and so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: 'Hold On!'

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
'Or walk with kings - nor lose the common touch,
if neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none to much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!

I think this would have to be good advice for an electrical contractor.

[ August 14, 2005, 09:28 PM: Message edited by: growler ]
 
Re: too big of a job

Amazing how there is such wisdom to found in places you never even expect to see it. Thanks Growler, I really needed that post in situations of my life that don't even pertain to my job.
 
Re: too big of a job

Originally posted by highkvoltage:
Really what it comes down to is your not a contractor. I am not insulting you just stating a fact. You really have no business acting as one unless you are willing to stick your neck out there and take the jump. Guys working out of there basement are killing legitiment EC's and are killing the market. You guys have no overhead so you quote a low bid and drive down the market. Personally your freind should tell you to take a jump contact the GC and take the job. Don't get me wrong I hope you decide to become an EC but until then don't act as one. Here is something else you need to think about. I read alot a guys posting how profits are down and wages/jobs are also going down. The reason for this is there are to many moonlighters undercutting their own employer, then woundering why they are not working or their employers can't afford pay raises or medical insurance . Remember what goes around comes around. Once you are up and running and your employees start moonlighting taking your customers and are bidding jobs you may be looking at then you will truely understand.
Click to expand...
Bitter are we? :roll:
 
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