Trying new program on a home build does this seem high

A

AC\DC

Senior Member
Location
Florence,Oregon,Lane
Occupation
EC
Basically 2 story home 4k bare minimum code except for couple extra lights in kitchen and dining room and den and 4-8’ garage lights and lights on both sides of exterior door.
Not suppling lights doing 200 amp Iservice and complete install.
Software is at 52k I got it down to 49k seems high still but labor is 29k
Material is 10k
Overhead and profit is 15k at 15%

I think my problem and I alway do this, is I still use my normal hourly rate at 150 and not drop it down to 115 I can get it to 44k.
I mostly do remodels so I just through what I want and if I get cool. But thisIMG_5082.pngIMG_5081.png may turn into 10 homes so want to kinda get it.
Am I high,
 
I don’t know your market, but I would think $150/hr anywhere for code-minimum residential is far above market-rate. I’m in the southeast, and what you’ve described would go for about $20k on average.
 
I'm not seeing lighting fixtures , nor switching on that plan so no bid. I would tell them T+M only or else come up with a proper electrical plan. And.......... don't forget the heating and ac appliances. When I see a master bedroom with 2 walk in closets I know it's going to have 6-8 recess lights , and vent fans in each bathroom, and prolly a whole slew of dimmers. There ain't going to be bare code minimum in that job , just wait and see. Oh, the GC forgot to mention he wants you to put a Tesla charger for each car space. Use the 52K number..........
 
macmikeman said:
I'm not seeing lighting fixtures , nor switching on that plan so no bid. I would tell them T+M only or else come up with a proper electrical plan. And.......... don't forget the heating and ac appliances. When I see a master bedroom with 2 walk in closets I know it's going to have 6-8 recess lights , and vent fans in each bathroom, and prolly a whole slew of dimmers. There ain't going to be bare code minimum in that job , just wait and see. Oh, the GC forgot to mention he wants you to put a Tesla charger for each car space. Use the 52K number..........
Click to expand...
Not seeing receptacle outlets either. Or other specialties like ceiling fans, heating and cooling, load calculations for service min., etc. Seen many time "I only want the minimum" and then inevitably they start to complain of tripping breakers due to over loading especially the kitchen. Also original size was for 200A and then they start adding a jacuzzi, pool, multiple heat pumps, and 2 EV and suddenly the system is overloaded. Also beware of "can't you just?" or "while you're at it can you add this or that?". I know that is what "change orders" are for but you will get big push back especially from the GC that wanted a bid for "Bare Minimum".

Around here get a lot of this from GCs that want a price for a bare minimum install only to get a price to add on their bid, and have their in-house guy do it. A lot of work for no compensation.
 
AC\DC said:
what’s your hourly rate then for new build $100. We are high than standered market cause of small high end coastal town.
Click to expand...

Code-minimum resi installs down here are using either low-wage helpers with one "j-man" per crew or subcontractors. The average billable wage is going to be <$30/hr. Custom residential is going to be higher but what you're talking about doing is going to be the lowest wage.
 
Seems high to me too. Markets vary widely of course, but where I am , you can't charge anywhere near your normal hourly rate for doing a house, it's just going to be too high. Just a WAG, but I would think more like 25-30k
 
I am mostly wondering if my labor units are off or if I just charge to much per hour.

Labor Units Breakdown (McCormick Equivalent)


TaskQtyMcCormick Labor Units (Hours per Unit)Total Labor Hours
Receptacles (50 total)500.3517.5
Light Fixture Wiring (32 locations, not installing fixtures)320.5517.6
Switch Wiring & Installation (22 switches)220.357.7
Main Service Panel & Subpanel Wiring22.04.0
NM-B General Circuit Wiring (28 circuits)283.8106.4
Dedicated Circuits (Water Heater, Range, Dryer, Heating System)42.510.2
Light Fixture Installation (Standard Ceiling Fixtures)200.612.0
Light Fixture Installation (8' Garage LED Strip Lights)41.04.0
Outdoor Light Installation80.756.0
Total Labor Hours--
185 total hours
 
AC\DC said:
I am mostly wondering if my labor units are off or if I just charge to much per hour.

Labor Units Breakdown (McCormick Equivalent)


TaskQtyMcCormick Labor Units (Hours per Unit)Total Labor Hours
Receptacles (50 total)500.3517.5
Light Fixture Wiring (32 locations, not installing fixtures)320.5517.6
Switch Wiring & Installation (22 switches)220.357.7
Main Service Panel & Subpanel Wiring22.04.0
NM-B General Circuit Wiring (28 circuits)283.8106.4
Dedicated Circuits (Water Heater, Range, Dryer, Heating System)42.510.2
Light Fixture Installation (Standard Ceiling Fixtures)200.612.0
Light Fixture Installation (8' Garage LED Strip Lights)41.04.0
Outdoor Light Installation80.756.0
Total Labor Hours--
185 total hours
Click to expand...
Quickly in my head I came up with 4-5 weeks, before I looked at your number I swear to god. So I think the hours are not excessive at all, just labor is way too high.
 
So just a general question though. If you think it will actually take that long.

And your hourly rate is lower than let’s say normal t&m work why the hell wire homes lol.
I mostly to service and remodel and make a lot on bid jobs. So these new home throw me off on the profit.
You want more than your normal hourly rate!
 
I would be at $24K without anything extra. I did one a little larger a couple of years ago. On the trim/final, the HO brought all her lighting for me to install. It was a nightmare! Lots of old fixtures that had to be modified, lots of pendant lights that took 1/2 an hour to assemble, etc. I had already priced the job and I lost some on it due to the lights and a few other things.
 
AC\DC said:
So just a general question though. If you think it will actually take that long.

And your hourly rate is lower than let’s say normal t&m work why the hell wire homes lol.
I mostly to service and remodel and make a lot on bid jobs. So these new home throw me off on the profit.
You want more than your normal hourly rate!
Click to expand...
Exactly, Why.

Only thing that might have a give back for you and allow a lower hourly than T&M service jobs is you get to set up once and on the same sight for a number of days vs having to fill in for travel time and set up on multiple jobs a day. So to get your $50/hr you want, on a T&M service job you might need to be $100/hr or more to compensate for 45 min or more drive between jobs, plus set up, tear down, maybe chase a part or two, and billing for maybe 2 ,3, or 4 jobs in a day in billable hours. Also markup might be higher on a T&M for the need to have multiple components of different mfg and colors on the truck. A service job to run out to the supply house for just a couple of switches or a breaker will not fly for the HO.

I'd think if you have been doing mostly service work, you could take the billable hours receipts for a day and divide by an 8 hr day to see what might be a valid hourly rate for a home wire rate that doesn't need a bunch of setup and takedown daily. The reverse process might also be true if you mostly do new builds.
 
AC\DC said:
I am mostly wondering if my labor units are off or if I just charge to much per hour.

Labor Units Breakdown (McCormick Equivalent)


TaskQtyMcCormick Labor Units (Hours per Unit)Total Labor Hours
Receptacles (50 total)500.3517.5
Light Fixture Wiring (32 locations, not installing fixtures)320.5517.6
Switch Wiring & Installation (22 switches)220.357.7
Main Service Panel & Subpanel Wiring22.04.0
NM-B General Circuit Wiring (28 circuits)283.8106.4
Dedicated Circuits (Water Heater, Range, Dryer, Heating System)42.510.2
Light Fixture Installation (Standard Ceiling Fixtures)200.612.0
Light Fixture Installation (8' Garage LED Strip Lights)41.04.0
Outdoor Light Installation80.756.0
Total Labor Hours--
185 total hours
Click to expand...

185 labor hours is pretty spot-on for what should be used to bid it, your labor price is just too high. A 3-man crew that does residential only will blow through this rough in 2 days, and trim it in 1 day.

So 185/hrs at $30/hr, + $10k in materials as you said, at 10% overhead and 15% profit is $20k. That's right on the average going rate for my area. You'd be better off to find a resi crew to sub this out to piece-work and make a few bucks for taking on the risk.
 
Ya it's no where near that amount of man hours for my apprentice and I to do one of these.

Your labor units on the lights seem high unless they are absolutely complicated to an extreme degree.

The dedicated circuits won't be an extra 2.5 hours each unless it's a change order.

It's saying you'll need 3 days just pulling HRs that's odd.

I see 4.5 days my apprentice and i rough in and 3.5 days trim out both of us and one extra day to do late delivery fixtures.

It'd be around 16k in labor and ~5 to 10k in materials with mark up gets you 25 to 36k total. This is depending on if they have oddball lighting like Aquity vs just halo cans ect... or boilers vs central heat.
And our prices aren't the cheapest and we aren't the fastest. There's guys who can whip it out

You could sub us out and make a profit even but I doubt you win the bid
I think you should try and get yourself a resi apprentice it'll cut the annoying labor out because they could do that part for like running the HRs and so forth.
 
So roughly your saying at the it equate to 77 and hour your actually making. I can’t do that lol. If I was to hire a j-man that what after burdens they come out to hourly.

Your saying 72 hours actual work 185/72 is 2.5 time so that only 77

There no money in resi houses for the hassle. Lucky I got a few for my high amounts before but know wonder I don’t get a lot.
 
AC\DC said:
So roughly your saying at the it equate to 77 and hour your actually making. I can’t do that lol. If I was to hire a j-man that what after burdens they come out to hourly.

Your saying 72 hours actual work 185/72 is 2.5 time so that only 77

There no money in resi houses for the hassle. Lucky I got a few for my high amounts before but know wonder I don’t get a lot.
Click to expand...
Apprentice bill out at 80ph I'm 140ph
220 x 8 x9 is 15840.

It's all about staying productive and making movements count. That's how the normal house wiring pace is everywhere other than the coast. And that labor is if we uses only 12 for receptacles and 14 for lighting only.
 
Last edited:
I get it, but I guess remodel work is a lot more lucrative. I can see the benefit of a house if I had alot of employees so it could fill a day and then send them out to other job as needed. But as just me remodels make me almost double my hourly rate.

bussiness is dame hard, I thought it be easier than being just an electrician lol


I did get my bid down to 30k I’ll see.

I did finally get an apprentice yaaaa!!
 
Last edited:
AC\DC said:
I get it, but I guess remodel work is a lot more lucrative. I can see the benefit of a house if I had alot of employees so it could fill a day and then send them out to other job as needed. But as just me remodels make me almost double my hourly rate.

bussiness is dame hard, I thought it be easier than being just an electrician lol


I did get my bid down to 30k I’ll see.

I did finally get an apprentice yaaaa!!
Click to expand...
Good and jobs like this honestly you need to use them as filler work to keep busy they'll never be big money just a bit here and there. They do get your apprentice hours and experience. You should make a bit off them too after a year and the experience for them will be valuable.

Service work is where money is to be made in resi and these are only good for filler work like I said. And your apprentice will appreciate the full schedule.
 
I've looked at the chart, and I see a lot of excessive labor showing on the circuits.

If I had somebody take 2.5 hours to run a dedicated circuit for a range on new construction, he'd be fired before lunch time. I know it depends on the length and the pathway, but that really should only be about an hour

Then it looks like it's doubling up on all of your wiring. If you have a general circuit wiring that's 3.8 hours, I'm assuming that should include the wiring for the receptacles, switches and lights. So why are there separate lines for the switches, the receptacles and the lights? And it's extremely excessive time anyway.

Just suppose you had a circuit with seven receptacles, two switches and two lights. That thing is showing a total of like 8 hours for only 11 openings. At that rate of time you would spend 2 weeks and wouldn't even have any of the service done, none of the appliances, no outside lights, good night.

I don't have a rate for new construction, it's all done by piece work. But it usually works out to about $90 per hour if I do the whole thing by myself and it's managed efficiently from the builder.

That's not near enough if you have to bid every one of them before you get it.

Just at a glance I would probably have that house at about $22k. That's not near enough money if you work by yourself and you're too slow.

You can't go into new construction with a remodel pace and expect to make any money.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top